Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Sick of This.  (Read 26978 times)

ellisr

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • Wales
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2011, 02:17:29 pm »
My other half wanted to go back to keeping great danes after our 3 lovely boys time passes but neither of us can justify specifying abreed of dog when there are a lot of unwanted dogs needing homes and love

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2011, 06:24:45 pm »
My other half wanted to go back to keeping great danes after our 3 lovely boys time passes but neither of us can justify specifying abreed of dog when there are a lot of unwanted dogs needing homes and love
If I was starting again, and didn't have four pedigree dogs now, I'd consider doing the same, but I wouldn't go out and buy a mongrel through choice.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2011, 06:41:34 pm »
We used to go to rescue centers all the time but all was to offer were very large dogs and cross staffies, nothing wrong with them but at the time we had a small house and I wanted a smaller dog, we bought Bruce who turned out to be a lovely cross and was a deliberate mateing of Rottie and Sheep dog, then a few years on, the same applied and it was also hard and expensive to get a small rescue dog so we bought a patterdale/lakeland, both have since gone but we bought our lab as we wanted to be sure of what the fully grown dog would turn into roughly, some pups that are 57 types, you never know. THats our reason for pedigree, I have had several Labs durring my life and loved them, also had a Alsation but I found others were funny with you when out walking, people never trust them but she was lovely and ended up with displaced hips!!!

My point is CHOICE!!!!!! Know one should make anyone buy just pedigree dogs or just mugrals, its all about choice and the old way of if I had a nice bitch and someone had a lovley male dog, then I am sure I would have mated them. Trends go either way and who am I to stop people buying what they want for a price they want to pay.

I don't want a designer vigina but sure not stopping others from having them  ;)

waterhouse

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2011, 11:02:08 pm »
We had a short-lived German Shepherd from the RSPCA who'd been in a particularly nasty cruelty prosecution. Sheba was the loveliest natured dog - never nagged and was always surprised and pleased every time she was fed.

We lived in the centre of town then on the shortest route between the main fastfood outlets and  the railway station.  I used to take her out around eleven every night for a short walk  wearing a cheap reflective jacket.  The fact that Sheba could barely walk and my jacket was orange didnt stop the local inebriates from thinking they were in the presence of the Old Bill.  It was a hoot!

Berkshire Boy

  • Joined May 2011
  • Presteigne, Powys
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2011, 09:16:58 am »
It's all about choice. If I choose to breed crosses thats my choice, if people want to buy crosses that's their choice and if breeders want to breed pedigree dogs thats their choice.
Why certain people think they can dictate what others should do and that their way is the only way is beyond me.
It's terrible that so many dogs are awaiting rescue but I don't see why that should stop you getting the dog you want, its your choice.
If everyone stopped buying puppies and re homed rescue dogs instead that would be great, no one would breed pedigree and the Kennel club would go out of business and we could all make our own choices. I can dream. :D
Everyone makes mistakes as the Dalek said climbing off the dustbin.

Fronhaul

  • Joined Jun 2011
    • Fronhaul Farm
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2011, 10:54:11 am »
Just as I can dream that people will act responsibly, plan their litters and never allow bitches in season to roam.  Whether you breed pedigrees or cross breds of any species careful selection of sire and dam is I believe the starting point.  And nothing will ever shift me from that view.  Sandy describes choice.  Allowing a bitch to roam removes choice from the owner of the dog.  And there is the vital difference.


doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2011, 11:46:39 am »
It's all about choice. If I choose to breed crosses thats my choice, if people want to buy crosses that's their choice and if breeders want to breed pedigree dogs thats their choice.
Why certain people think they can dictate what others should do and that their way is the only way is beyond me.
It's terrible that so many dogs are awaiting rescue but I don't see why that should stop you getting the dog you want, its your choice.
If everyone stopped buying puppies and re homed rescue dogs instead that would be great, no one would breed pedigree and the Kennel club would go out of business and we could all make our own choices. I can dream. :D
I have always insisted that choice is our right.  Our Kingdom has been built on that premise.  But someone buying a puppy which has inherently diseased parents has no choice - until a year or two down the line they discover their much loved animal has a heart defect, or hip dysplasia.  Then they have a choice - spend a large amount of money hoping to give their pet some quality of life or have their vet kill it - oops sorry euthanase, put to sleep - or whatever other euphonism you care to use.  Is that choice?  I don't think so!  If anyone who breeds, whether they are called a breeder, a back street breeder, a small time breeder, or just someone with a nice bitch and a friend with a lovely male dog, were to do all the required health checks then everyone would have a choice.  That is the whole point - breed anything you like to anything else you like - have that choice - but ensure they are not carrying any inherited diseases first.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2011, 12:00:04 pm »
Like us humans?

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2011, 12:54:47 pm »
Well OH came home last night, went onto the computer to show me an E-Mail from one of our friends. She has just taken on a cross Golden Retriever pup. Mother a pure bred was dumped at a rescue centre when she was pregnant. As far as the owners were concerned their bitch was ruined by having puppies that were not pure bred. Puppy is beautiful very much like her mother. I so want to fill the large gap in my life that losing Fallon has left. Tanya is starting to recover from losing her friend as is Jake but I find each day hard. Maybe the right dog will find me.

faith0504

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Cairngorms
  • take it easy and chill
    • blaemuir cottage
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2011, 01:20:43 pm »
Sabrina  :bouquet: for you.

I think the right dog will come along when the time is right, im a strong believer in that outlook, when your heart is ready.  :wave:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2011, 02:43:06 pm »
Maybe the right dog will find me.

I think they often do.   :bouquet:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2011, 03:47:00 pm »
 :bouquet: How lovely, we had a stray walk into our house years ago, sadly she also ran off again a few years later, the littlest Hobo!!!!!

Alvic

  • Joined Aug 2011
  • The Trossachs
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2011, 09:59:57 am »
A good indicator of the relative health of cross breeds vs pedigrees is the hunting world. Game keepers dogs have to work hard and so good health is at a premium. They are increasingly looking to crosses such as labradoodles as the traditional breeds are suffering increasing health problems which are rare in crosses.

As for registered breeders. We have 2 deerhounds as well as lurchers. Currently deerhounds are a pretty healthy breed, probably because until the hunting ban they were often used for hunting as well as showing. But I for one have great concerns about the future. Many breeders are fixated on breeding simply for the show ring and so look to exaggerate certain characteristics which judges look for. Inbreeding is the quickest way to do this. The breeder of our dogs imported the male to avoid inbreeding problems. But a number of "reputable" breeders who were interested in puppies were unhappy because they were not inbred enough!

I dislike the Kennel Club enormously, but I have to admit it is the one organisation with the resources and clout to change things. They need to get away from the total aversion to outcrossing with different breeds to increase the gene pool, and get away from the stupid obsession with the current breed standards which are aimed at the show ring and put the long term health and welfare of the breed at the centre of any future standards.

Berkshire Boy

  • Joined May 2011
  • Presteigne, Powys
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2011, 10:20:45 am »
A very well put post Alvic. The only problem is whether the Kennel club has the will to change, it is still run by the pink gin and blue rinse brigade like so many of our outdated organisations.
Everyone makes mistakes as the Dalek said climbing off the dustbin.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2011, 10:36:09 am »
A good indicator of the relative health of cross breeds vs pedigrees is the hunting world. Game keepers dogs have to work hard and so good health is at a premium. They are increasingly looking to crosses such as labradoodles as the traditional breeds are suffering increasing health problems which are rare in crosses.
Not up here they ain't - my pal has three doodles left from a litter of 6 that are 5 months old - from two health tested parents, one of which is a lab that is worked and has FT Ch parents and grandparents.  She had five left up until last weekend.  The first one went when they were 12 weeks old.  Fortunately she has the facilities to look after them and do a wee bit of training with them, but be warned anyone who thinks they can make a quick buck from any kind of doodle.  Any breeder, whether a one off or in large numbers should be prepared to take any dogs back or hold onto them until they find their forever homes.  She had a lab dog a couple of years ago pup until he was 13 months - from the sister to the dam of the doodles, sire a FT Ch.

Quote
I dislike the Kennel Club enormously, but I have to admit it is the one organisation with the resources and clout to change things. They need to get away from the total aversion to outcrossing with different breeds to increase the gene pool, and get away from the stupid obsession with the current breed standards which are aimed at the show ring and put the long term health and welfare of the breed at the centre of any future standards.
I must take issue with this unfair and irrational condemnation.
Breed standards were initially written for working breeds and progressed from there.  The problem is that non-dog people were employed to 'standardise' the standards.  But if you read any standard properly you will understand that the word picture it paints is for conformation regardless of whether the actual dog works or not.  And if a dog is not conformed properly it cannot reach its full potential in the field.  For  example "Chest deep. Brisket reaching to elbow. Foreleg length is slightly greater than chest depth. Ribcage well rounded. Back short with loin short and strong" indicates to me that this dog should have a deep chest for plenty of heart room, with plenty rib cage room for both heart and lungs, and short coupled, with a decent length of leg, so that it can hunt for me all day on either moors and woodlands.  In addition, if you read the list of Health requirements for 'responsible' breeders (ABS) you will see that the KC are taking great care on health issues. 

As regards aversion to outcrossing I think you mean cross breeding? You perhaps do not realise that there are regulations in place to do just that - but only to improve on what is there already - that is the whole point of breeding in my opinion, breed to improve the stock you have now - surely that applies to all animals???  The KC will allow dogs to be registered which are a result of continued crossbreeding provided they breed true within seven generations and are certified by two conformation judges to be of a quality conforming to the standard.   

As for gene pools, in the majority of breeds there is a huge gene pool, the problem is that if a dog wins a lot in either bench or field it is the best thing since sliced bread and everyman and his wife wants to use it at stud.  THAT is what narrows the gene pool NOT the number of dogs in the country.  Human stupidity!  The KC cannot regulate that!

And incidentally, the KC is run by a huge office organisation, not by a few oldies drinking G & T
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

 

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