Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Sick of This.  (Read 26914 times)

Fronhaul

  • Joined Jun 2011
    • Fronhaul Farm
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 05:00:10 pm »
And how many dog breeders (not puppy farmers but genuine breeders) do you think actually make any significant profit from their hobby Berkshire Boy?  Because while I may see friends making a profit on one litter I can't think of a single one who makes any significant income over the course of a year out of their dogs.  Mind you I can't think of any who charge £1000 for a pup either.  And I do know a fair number of breeders given my Mother bred pedigree dogs for nearly 60 years.

Sitting beside me is a girl that placed at Crufts.  She has a great hip score, a fantastic temperament but she hates showing.  Far from breeding from her the breeder gave her to me because I already had one of her breeding and was looking for a companion for him.  Hundreds of pounds invested in hip scoring, entry fees for shows, travelling both here and in Ireland campaigning her on the show circuit for nil return.  And with respectable breeders who for one reason or another don't want a bitch bred from while that was very generous it is not that unusual.  And that is the reality of respectable breeders.  It is their hobby.

And why is it wrong to let a bitch in season run around?  Think about the effect it has on the local dogs.  A dog will travel a distance to a bitch in season.  That collie is probably supposed to be working not heading off and disappearing.  And potentially putting himself in danger if he crossed roads and encountered traffic.  To say nothing of the fact the owner may not have wanted him to cover a bitch.  How much did you pay the owner of the collie as a stud fee or was the money you received from the pups pure profit after you had subtracted any feed costs?


robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 05:10:48 pm »
why would anybody sue you for selling a pup :farmer:

shearling

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 05:14:16 pm »
Interesting point

How much did you pay the owner of the collie as a stud fee

shearling

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 05:17:11 pm »
Oh dear sounds too much like me, however, two spingers rather than doodles. Me thinks owner is to blame more than the pooches - well it is in my case

As a pup he reminded me of an hyperactive child.  His owner had him at dog training etc, but it did not change him.  Numerous times he got in my field and chased the hens, and ignored the owner when she called him off.  She used to have a whistle in her mouth, and do signals with her hands when out with him .....all this achieved was a very red faced  woman who was puffed out blowing on her whistle, and the dog running riot!!

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2011, 05:55:14 pm »
Why would anyone sue for buying a pup, if you buy your family a pup in good faith and it turns out to have hip problems or any other serious condition. 1 long term vet fees if you are lucky, pup put to sleep which leaves family traumatise the list could go on. I know quite a few breeders through working and showing my dogs and their dogs always come first. Their family, well looked after and much ed loved. The people we bought Fallon from came to our house to check us out before they would agree to sell us one of their pups. They also came to see her at 6and 12 months of age and out of the 8 puppies they sold only 1 did not get a good home and when they discovered this they bought the pup back. Breeding any animal well cost wither its pure or cross bred, I choose not to breed Fallon who was a stunning animal and plenty of people told me to take a litter of her. My reasons being I could not live with myself if anything I bred ended up in a bad home or worse out on the street. Since Fallon passed away I have been wondering about buying another puppy or going to our local dogs home. My worry is will I end up with a nutter or another screwed up animal like Tanya. With young grand children I have to be careful.

Berkshire Boy

  • Joined May 2011
  • Presteigne, Powys
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2011, 06:55:28 pm »
Fine, carry on selling your unhealthy mongrels then, and wait to be sued one day.  I'll just stick with the organisation that does most to protect dogs in the UK, or rather the ONLY one that does.
[/quote]

My pups are not unhealthy. Mum is a pedigree Lab and the dad is a good working dog. I live in the middle of nowhere and the only dog that comes visiting is him. So according to you all kennel club breeders are the bees knees and anyone else is a disgrace and should be banned from having dogs and breeding. You should be very carefull you don't hurt yourself when you fall off that high horse.

As to not many pups around for £1000 you obviously breed the wrong dogs. A friend of mine breeds Bernese mountain dogs £1200 each ,a waiting list and a very nice profit.
Everyone makes mistakes as the Dalek said climbing off the dustbin.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2011, 07:08:29 pm »
And how many dog breeders (not puppy farmers but genuine breeders) do you think actually make any significant profit from their hobby Berkshire Boy?  Because while I may see friends making a profit on one litter I can't think of a single one who makes any significant income over the course of a year out of their dogs.  Mind you I can't think of any who charge £1000 for a pup either.  And I do know a fair number of breeders given my Mother bred pedigree dogs for nearly 60 years.

Sitting beside me is a girl that placed at Crufts.  She has a great hip score, a fantastic temperament but she hates showing.  Far from breeding from her the breeder gave her to me because I already had one of her breeding and was looking for a companion for him.  Hundreds of pounds invested in hip scoring, entry fees for shows, travelling both here and in Ireland campaigning her on the show circuit for nil return.  And with respectable breeders who for one reason or another don't want a bitch bred from while that was very generous it is not that unusual.  And that is the reality of respectable breeders.  It is their hobby.

And why is it wrong to let a bitch in season run around?  Think about the effect it has on the local dogs.  A dog will travel a distance to a bitch in season.  That collie is probably supposed to be working not heading off and disappearing.  And potentially putting himself in danger if he crossed roads and encountered traffic.  To say nothing of the fact the owner may not have wanted him to cover a bitch.  How much did you pay the owner of the collie as a stud fee or was the money you received from the pups pure profit after you had subtracted any feed costs?


Brilliant post! well done!
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

ellisr

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • Wales
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 08:35:03 pm »
I have seen the good side and bad side of both so called respectable KC registered breeders, like everything you have to check out where you decide to buy from and decide what you want to buy.

Nowadays I seem to get peoples cast offs and only have rescue dogs, Rusky a heinz 57 who was left with me at 2 days old and the owner went missing overnight, Bruno a fab GSD that I took off someone for beating him with a stick, and finally Minty a border collie that I found as a pup wandering looking very near to the end. I love them all but it makes me sad to see these dogs mistreated and neglected because people get them too cheap and think they are disposable like most of the materialistic things these days.

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 08:46:48 pm »
Ellisr, I agree, just having a badge or belonging to organisatios don't make you good or right!

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 09:01:14 pm »
o dear the people the dog breeders sell to must not be stitched up right        if the same were true in the pedigree pig world nobody would sell a pig at all          
we breed dogs    collies     and the pups are born and reared in the house not just dragged into the house on sale day cowering in a corner stinking of pish   like the ones we saw when we were looking for dogs        yes we have orders for pups  and advertise the remainder
we don't vet the purchasers  (it would cost a fortune)  we keep in touch with buyers if they want to(it is always interesting to hear how well the pups are getting on  and how attached to them they get
i still cant see why you would be sued   unless the buyer knows more about breeding than the seller  or you are purposely breeding dogs that are unfit for purpose  :dog:

knightquest

  • Joined May 2010
  • Birmingham
    • Knight Pet Supplies
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2011, 09:50:09 pm »
I don't like the fact that we are moving towards a sue for no reason culture but I am pleased that it might come in with dog breeders. There are some good breeders out there but there are more bad ones. If a few were sued 'big style' then perhaps it would put the frighteners on the bad breeders and stop so many dogs being bred.

When all is said and done, it's the dogs who suffer most AND THEY SHOULDN'T!!

The Kennel Club has only started to get it's act together recently following that damning exposure on the BBC and the susequent withdrawal of sponsorship of Crufts. They were so set in their ways and some of the breed clubs SO wrong that they had no choice but to change but they'll find a way round it and revert back to mating close relatives for the 'type'

Showing is a hobby for most breeders and they need money to do it and that's one reason for breeding. Whatever the reason stated for breeding a litter, the idea is to raise money when it comes down to it. I tell you one thing though, no breeder will let a winning dog go unless there is a bigger winner following behind.

Don't even start me on which end of the lead is being judged at these shows......................

Ian
Ian (me), Diane (my wife) and 4 dogs. Ollie (Lab mix) , Quest (Malamute), Gazer and Boris (Leonbergers)

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2011, 10:05:58 pm »
I have faith in human nature.  Perhaps I hide my head in the sand.   I judge the dogs not the people.  I don't make profits on breeding.  I only breed when I want a pup and I have 4 or 5 more homes waiting - before I breed.  I have decided not to breed my younger bitch as she had a Caesar last time - no medical reason, an attack by another dog.  My older bitch is spayed, I will do the same with Belle.  If I have another bitch it will be at least 2 years before I breed from that.  Perhaps I am in the minority.  If I am I am very surprised, and if I am I am very sad.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 10:09:59 pm by doganjo »
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Collie26

  • Joined May 2011
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2011, 10:28:17 pm »
If there are so many different breed standards and health checks how come there are so many different  problems with so many breeds, hip dispysia, heart problems, breathing problems. Correct me if im wrong but arent the kennel club responsible for setting these??

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2011, 11:37:26 pm »
There is a breed standard for each breed.  It is obvious that you couldn't have the same breed standard for every breed.  Each type of cheese has a different recipe.  These are recipes for breeds of dog, or cat, or pig etc etc

The health checks have been set out as a result of a number of years research; and this research shows that there are inherited traits that are the same in many breeds.  Hip dysplasia for instance is common to, and is rife in, a large number of breeds.  Just watch the next Labrador as it walks away from you! 

The  Kennel Club cannot control what Breeders do, there is no legislation in place - at the moment! (or in fact individual people who want to have a litter, as breeding is open to anyone, and that is the main problem)
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

waterhouse

  • Guest
Re: Sick of This.
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2011, 03:03:36 am »
Gosh. Just as well that we all like each other!

I'm afraid that hard economic times, greed and stupidity come together all too often and not least in the dog world. 

 

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