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Author Topic: How to give needles?  (Read 13598 times)

Lostlambs

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Canada
How to give needles?
« on: March 06, 2013, 12:44:51 pm »
Probably a pretty stupid question but here goes. How do you give shots. One vet here says subcutaneous, under the skin for everything. The other vet says intramuscular. The bottle says intramuscular(penicillin) My ewe book says to give lambs subcutaneous. Also I have talked to farmers around here who say they walk along and give tasvax 8 by jabbing with a needle as they go-the bottle says subcutaneous only. I've also seen videos of them needling in chutes where they aren't lifting the skin for the shot. I have before held each one and lifted the skin for the vaccines. Mostly need to know about vaccines and antibiotics :-\

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 12:58:15 pm »
The product that you are injecting will say how it should be administered on it's box/leaflet, and some even tell you where on the animal to inject.

SheepCrazy!

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Dumfries and Galloway
  • www.hawthornsoaysandjacobs.co.uk
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Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 01:31:07 pm »


The lastest QMS leaflet is suggesting only injecting in the neck, in case the injection cases any ulcers or scarring in the meat which reduces the value, obviously that only matters for meat animals. I follow the manufacturers instructions  then if there any problems at least you followed their guidelines and can blame it on them  :D

I just heptivaced my Soay ewes yesterday and did it subcutaneous in the neck, as if its in the muscle it can swell and leave a hard lump.

Good luck subcutaneous injections aren't always easy :fc:

fsmnutter

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • Fettercairn, Aberdeenshire
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 01:45:28 pm »
Hope I can offer some advice as a vet.
The individual products have advised routes (eg. intramuscular, subcutaneous) as this is what they've been tested on, and they are absorbed into the blood stream at the right rate and concentration to do the job they're supposed to.
Most antibiotics (but check the label of each one you get given) are given into the muscle, because this gets them to a high concentration in the blood faster than under the skin.
To give a lamb an intramuscular injection, I usually fold the back leg up, so that the thigh is big and fat, and inject into the front of the thigh, this usually avoids all the big blood vessels and nerves. Occasionally there will be a spot of blood because there are small blood vessels in the muscles and the skin, but shouldn't cause the lamb too much discomfort.
For a bigger lamb or a ewe, there are two good options, one is again the thigh, part the wool as best you can and find a spot that feels like fairly solid muscle over the thigh, it should feel like poking your own thigh or bicep. Alternatively you can inject into the neck because this is away from the better cuts of meat in the back legs if you are sending animals for meat. Again, part the wool, and find a spot that feels like muscle. Aim for the top side of the neck, rather than the throat, as you will avoid the windpipe and the big blood vessels in the neck.
It is advisable to try and suck up a bit with the syringe before injecting, as this way you will see blood coming into the syringe if you accidentally hit a blood vessel. This is not a problem, just pull the needle out a little bit and point it a bit to the side, try again, and if it's all clear, then inject away.
Subcutaneous injections are often done in the skin of the neck as well, and this is a common route for vaccines, as you want the injection to hang around a bit longer, and expose the animal to a little bit of the vaccine for a long time.
The best way to do it is to lift the skin, make a tent, and put the needle in at the base of the tent, checking it hasn't gone through the other side. I usually stand behind the ewe at that time, because then she can't back away from you.
Not many injections are expected to go under the skin of newborn lambs, but there is a lot of loose skin, just find a bit you can get hold of, and pinch up into a tent, again putting the needle in at the base of the triangle and checking the other side to make sure the needle or medicine isn't coming out.
Hope that helps :)

Brucklay

  • Joined Apr 2010
  • Perthshire
    • Brucklay Pygmy Goats
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Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 07:44:15 pm »
FSMnutter - thank you for such a great explanation - I just do as I'm told but understanding the reasoning behind it is great  :thumbsup:
Pygmy Goats, Shetland Sheep, Zip & Indie the Border Collies, BeeBee the cat and a wreak of a building to renovate!!

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 08:27:38 pm »
Some great advice on this thread  :thumbsup:

The only thing I'd add is to avoid if possible giving especially subcutaneous injections where any lump might get caught by the shearer come shearing time.  We used to give vaccinations behind the shoulder because it is considerably easier when vaccinating hundreds of sheep than vaccinating in the neck.  However, we had one or two with a lump in that spot, which potentially could get nicked by the shearer.

Whilst it's maybe not the end of the world if the shearer does nick them, and you'd put antiseptic spray on if it happened, it could provide an entry point for diseases carried on the shearer's equipment, so is best avoided. 

And for the spinners :spin:  :knit: amongst us, blood on the fleece is less than ideal - tho' it will usually come out on a cold soak. ;)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 09:14:05 pm »
Have found it a great help re subcutaneous injections to use a shorter needle therefore less chance of poking through the other side of the tent. My standard is a 18 gauge half inch for Heptavac etc now. You don't even really need to make the tent of skin as it's too short for intramuscular.

Lostlambs

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Canada
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 10:08:49 pm »
Thank you, I will be vaccinating everyone on the weekend and will try the techniques. One of my most dreaded days but will post on how it went :fc: A really good needle day for me is if I don't get jabbed more than the sheep ;D

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 12:15:00 am »
I agree about the 1/2" needle - I still tent but if I have a silly jumpy one I know it's safe to just plunge it into her neck and push!   :D

A really good needle day for me is if I don't get jabbed more than the sheep ;D

I know what you mean.  I vacc'd the hoggs today, silly bints, and by the end of them I could tell which I hadn;t jagged yet 'cos they didn't have any of my blood on their neck fleece!   ::)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

kumquat

  • Joined May 2012
  • Ruthin, North Wales
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 08:18:09 am »
We vacc'd our yesterday and were really careful...until the last Soay who decided to run into the hurdle whilst being caught. Vacc'd ok but had a bit of a bloody mouth. she'd nicked the inside of here lip. soon stopped. We use 1/2" needles as well
whilst we had them in, there was time for a little manicure round the back end.
Proud member of the Soay Sheep Society :thumbsup:

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 09:50:23 am »
To avoid being pricked I'd advise getting a Sterimatic sleeve.  Brilliant for subq injections.  Keeps the needle clean and saves any accidents.
http://www.sterimatic.co.uk/

wellies

  • Joined Jul 2010
  • Shrewsbury
    • Fairfax Ryeland Flock
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Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 11:23:29 am »
I was injecting a ewe yesterday with penicillin which is always amusing as I'm very allergic and hubby was off for the week so couldn't help  :-\ . So off I go to catch the ewe, restrain and inject. Lets just say she was less than happy at the prospect and decided to be particuarly difficult. In the end it looked like we were in a game of twister with me desperately trying to get the needle into her rather than me  :o . When I was at Uni my lecturer had us inject subcutaneously (is their such a word?) in the fold of skin where the arm pit is. I can't tell you how many times I went straight through

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: How to give needles?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 03:10:45 pm »
AS others have said, I give subcutaneous routine injections using a short needle, straight in so I can get on and do lots in a short time frame. However one-off subcutaneous injections, I will use a longer needle and tent the skin.

 
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