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Author Topic: Heptavac P  (Read 21287 times)

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smee2012

  • Joined Sep 2012
Heptavac P
« on: October 20, 2012, 10:26:18 pm »
Hello all.

First of all, an update on Dave, who was a bit POOrly a couple of weeks ago. He stopped scouring after a few days and is now back to normal. I think it must have been a stress reaction after all.

Now it's a vaccination question I have. My lambs were all vaccinated with Heptavac P Plus before we got them and I was advised to do the girls again in the late autumn. We were told that it probably wasn't worth doing the boys a) because of the withdrawal period before slaughter and b) because it is likely to raise a scar/reaction behind the ear that would lead to the rejection of that part of the carcass for human consumption.

I've just been looking around for Heptavac P and it seems that the smallest quantity I can buy myself is 50mls (25 doses), and it needs to be used within 10 days after opening. I will only be vaccinating 4 sheep so this seems like an awful waste! Does anyone know if I can get it in smaller quantities at all? There aren't really any sheep near us so I can't beg borrow or steal a few doses from a local farmer. Any ideas?

Also, is it fairly easy to vaccinate a sheep? Are there instructions on the syringes or the Heptavac bottle on where to stick the needle in? All the girls are extremely tame so there won't be any problems at all in keeping them still. I still feel like such a novice (which I am!). Hopefully next year, having gone through a whole year of sheep management, I won't feel quite so out of my depth!  :sheep: :dunce:

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 10:31:17 pm »
The issue with the sharing/borrowing plan is that, as I understand it, it aint allowed :-(( its a blinking pain. Now it would probably be fine and noone the wiser except since all medication batch numbers etc have to be recorded (purchase and administration) in your flock records, there would be a record in two places for the same bottle.
As I say, probably very low risk but depending on how 'correct' you want to be/your vet/neighbours want to be might determine whether you can get hold of a fraction of a 25 dose bottle.
 

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 10:38:36 pm »
I assume that you mean that they've had their first dose of Heptavac-P, and now need their second?  Confirm when they had their first jab, as the second one should be 4-6 weeks later.
Firstly, there is no withdrawal period for Heptavac.  Secondly, the bottle says once opened use it within 10 hours, not 10 days, as it is a live vaccine.
You can't get smaller quantities.  The only way is to share a bottle with someone.
Do the boys, it will be good practise if nothing else.  You shouldn't cock it up so badly that that bit gets condemned.  However, if you are unsure of how to inject then you should get your vet to do it / show you how to do it.  The instructions on the bottle tell you where to inject (neck, s/c).

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2012, 10:48:58 pm »
It keeps for a while in the fridge, apparently...  ;)

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 11:09:54 pm »
...especially if you draw off your 4 doses filling separate syringes from the same needle (so only one piercing of the rubber seal) and then wrap it in cling film.


Or so I've heard.  Wouldn't have done it myself of course :)
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
    • Facebook
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 08:05:14 am »
It keeps for a while in the fridge, apparently...  ;)

Have heard the same here. Lambivac also. Only food in my fridge though. Obviously.
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2012, 09:21:51 am »
Your vet might be able to help you co-ordinate with other small flock owners. Ours does - they'll give you small quantities of wormer and stuff and help with vaccines and so on.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 09:50:55 am »
I confirm that the withdrawal period for Heptavac-P is 0 days.

The manufacturer prefers injection in the side of the neck, under the ear, for the precise reason that the meat there is of lower value than elsewhere, in case of an abcess forming.  It is normal for a bit of a lump but it should go away over a period of weeks.

The first time you vaccinate, there need to be two shots, 4-6 weeks apart.  Most people with small flocks do as SF says, use a single puncture to do the first dose, cover the top with cling film and keep in the fridge, and use the same bottle to do the booster in a month.

Thereafter, it's one annual booster.  In lambing ewes, you want this a couple of weeks before lambing, so that the antibodies in the ewe's blood transfer to the lamb in the milk.

After the first year, therefore, keeping ewe lambs will be getting their annual booster alongside the ewes just prior to lambing.

It's a judgement, therefore, how you get from now, just before keeping ewe lambs' first winter, to 2014, when they'll be pregnant gimmers and getting a booster just before lambing alongside the other ewes.

You can either
  • give an extra shot sometime next year - ie, initial course (2 shots) now, then booster sometime next summer, and then annual booster just before lambing alongside the other ewes.
  • skip the extra, and wing it for next winter - ie, initial course (2 shots) now, then annual booster just before lambing alongside the other ewes early in 2014.  Officially, however, it should then be another initial course (2 shots) as it's been considerably more than 12 months since their last shot
  • wing it for this winter, give the initial course just before lambing, and annual boosters thereafter along with the other ewes

Given the long wet summer, the poor forage that we will all be therefore feeding this winter, and the unknown weather to expect, I would take the safe option with the girls.

If you are sending the boys direct to the abattoir, and within the next couple of months, then maybe you would decide to not vaccinate in case of abcess.  But if they're being sold through the ring, and/or not for a few more months, then I would vaccinate them too - you'll have more than you need for the girls.  There's no withdrawal period to worry about.  I would certainly vaccinate Dave, he's been poorly already so he needs all the help he can get. ;)

I've just written all that and re-read your OP - you say they were all vaccinated before you got them. If they had the full initial course of 2 shots, then they don't need any more before the next annual booster just before lambing. 

With Covexin-8 and -10, you can give the initial year's protection from a single dose given to a young lamb - provided it had plenty of colostrum from a properly vaccinated ewe - but the same does not apply with Heptavac-P, it is always two shots for the initial course, even if you did give them a shot as young lambs.

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Canadian Sheepfarmer

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • Manitoba, Canada.
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 03:03:29 pm »
I would invest in a copy of the 'Sheep Keepers Veterinary Handbook' by Agnes Winter and Judith Charnley. It would answer all of your questions and show how to vaccinate, where and when.
It is UK based and quite modern. It's on Amazon.
 
 PLUS it shouldn't frighten you too much like a lot of sheep vet books can!

agri293

  • Joined Nov 2010
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 03:52:08 pm »
It will keep for a while wrap it in cling film after you use it and stick it in the fridge

smee2012

  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2012, 11:10:58 pm »
I assume that you mean that they've had their first dose of Heptavac-P, and now need their second?  Confirm when they had their first jab, as the second one should be 4-6 weeks later.
Firstly, there is no withdrawal period for Heptavac.  Secondly, the bottle says once opened use it within 10 hours, not 10 days, as it is a live vaccine.

I assumed it was a booster, having had the first two lots already, otherwise the late autumn advice would make no sense, having received the lambs in mid July. Perhaps the breeder told me wrong (and I recorded all her advice on my dictaphone so I wouldn't forget it!) and meant to say late summer (ie, the second one of the initial course). If that is the case, and I've now missed that window, would it be OK to start again now or would I have to wait a little longer?

Yes, I meant to say 10 hours, not 10 days!

The breeder told me that most of the sheep they vaccinate develop an abscess at the site of injection and if I did the boys then their carcasses would be rejected because of this. Is this not the case then? An abscess doesn't always occur?

And another random question. Each of the four boys have lost their ear tags (I only ever found two of them), which I know are required to be replaced before they can get slaughtered. They pretty much lost them within a couple of weeks so I wondered if anyone has any recommendations on applicator/tag brands? We'll eventually (in a year or so) be putting our ewe lambs to a tup and so we'll need to tag the resultant lambs, as well as replace tags, if necessary, on our existing ewes.


plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
    • Facebook
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2012, 07:44:25 am »
Hello Smee

I use Supplies for Smallholders for my tagging needs because I found Gareth incredibly helpful with all of my questions (I found tagging very complicated and confusing!)
Your supplier will sell you a tagging 'gun' that goes with the tags you decide to buy.

Lisa 
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

smee2012

  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Heptavac P
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2012, 01:38:10 pm »
I've just heard back from my breeder and she said that the Heptavac dose IS a booster dose, having had both primer doses in the summer. Apparently some lambs can lose their immunity to enterotoxemia before the first annual booster so some vets advise to give a 6 month booster in their first year to prevent this happening. So that's what I'll do  :)

I might have a word with the vet about doing the first injections, so I can see what I have to do next time.

Thanks for all the replies  :thumbsup:

 

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