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Author Topic: eggs and worms in droppings  (Read 6342 times)

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
eggs and worms in droppings
« on: January 06, 2013, 11:24:52 pm »
We routinely observe our sheep poo (got to have a hobby!) and today came across some of the more solid droppings with white oval eggs and little white worms on and in them. Only the odd one or two but worrying nonetheless (you ever tried typing when a cat is sat on your lap rubbing and licking your hands?-it ain't easy  ;D  Oh I love my Baker but he does pick his moments!)
They look like roundworms to me. We're doing both a Heptavac 'P' boost (to be followed up pre-lambing) and a Dectomax jab this week which should sort out some of the parasite problem and boost our sheep health/resistance to lurgies in general. The sheep will go back on their existing grazing for 48 hours and then onto fresh thereafter. The fresh unfortunately won't yield much for very long, is too small for everyone and landowner won't be happy at us using it for more than a short duration anyway at this time of year. The deal is we usually keep it sheep free between tupping and lambing. (We've lost several acres owned by someone else over last year so resources are stretched. Currently in process of downsizing flock to reduce the pressure) There is an extra acre or three at bottom of paddock they are presently onwhich up until this point has been too wet to utilise but traversing it today has shown it to be drying out so we can extend into this which should help when sheep go back on. Our own six acre field is still largely under water.
We're also planning to give a worming drench which contains a flukecide (is that spelt wrong?-looks wrong) likely next week on our flock. Sharing cost with a sheepy neighbour.
I know our grazing programme isn't at it's optimum due to weather, overstocking and reduced grazing but should all that treatment cover our flock as best as we can within the circumstances?

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 12:24:53 am »
Visual observation of worms in faces is best done under a microscope - an egg count will give you some indication of the severity of the problem.... if they are ewes, say and the count is <1000 you probably dont need to worm them.  I would check just how much of a problem you have before you worm, no point in spending cash unescessarily.


Why are you going to inject them with dectomax as a matter of course? Do you have scab/lice? If not, why bother - target the wormer to whatever worms are present. I would, however fluke them, the only real way of ascertaining a fluke problem is PM and I guess none have died yet.


The current thinking is to move wormy sheep 2 weeks after worming (see SCOPS website) as if you move them immediatley after worming, the only eggs they will be defecating onto the new pasture are ones from worms who survived/are resistant to your wormer and will have no competition from worms already present and then you have a problem as they multiply.


Actually - at this time of year, Id not bother moving them at all after worming and hope for some cold in January.

Dougal

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Port O' Menteith, Stirlingshire
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 09:47:55 am »
Better to dose them than not no matter what the grazing pressure is like. It will give them at least three weeks cover and then they are infected by eggs so there is still a long time before they are infested with worms again.
It's always worse for someone else, so get your moaning done before they start using up all the available symathy!

Haylo-peapod

  • Joined Mar 2012
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 11:16:24 am »
What you have seen in the droppings sounds like tapeworm which isn't a major problem for sheep. Do make sure that if you have any dogs that their worming regime is kept up to date - especially if they love sheep poo like mine do - yeuch!

Bramblecot

  • Joined Jul 2008
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 12:54:04 pm »
If you have tapeworm in your sheep, the abbattoir may well reject some of the meat - learnt a hard lesson this year.  The only dog that runs in our fields is our own, and she is wormed.  We have been told the sheep can also pick up tapeworm from foxes, deer and rabbits.  Any knowledge ?

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 05:18:56 pm »
It's definately not tapeworm guys. I've seen tapeworm before to know what they look like. It's roundworm and I thought Dectomax sorted out parasites which is why I considered doing both together and a wormer drench soon after. Am I wrong on that?

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 06:20:43 pm »
Dectomax contains doromectin which is a wormer not dissimilar to ivermectin - the chemical also treats for scab.


So: If you have scab, it is a good option, specially as it can clear it up in one dose. If you don't have scab, Dectomax is expensive and you might as well use ivermectin. I wouldn't bother using both, it seems mildly pointless.


I don't know what flukicide is best to use in your area - triclabenzadole is reccomended here, but in some areas resistant fluke exist. I certainly wouldnt be using a combined flukicide/wormer and dectomax. You might as well use a flukicide and a wormer.


Generally speaking, treating things 'just in case' is how resistance to drugs is becoming more widespread.


Were I you, I would: Fluke them now with whatever flukicide works in your are, have a worm count done and worm accordingly when the results are back.


Unless of course, your sheep have scab, in which case, Dectomax it is, but certainly not Dectomax and a combined wormer/flukicide. 


Edited to add: 'by eye' observation of eggs in faeces gives you no idea of  the relative burden, because it is in no way quantitative - all sheep will have some kind of worms present, most of the time. It also negates to inform you which of the microscopic species are present.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 06:23:09 pm by SteveHants »

Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 09:23:57 am »
On the subject of epg results....

We see all the results from the lab of customers buying worm count kits from us, and have noted that the most prevalant type of worm at the moment is threadworm.

The counts identify as low as 50epg (50 eggs per gramme of sample material) and identify the type of worms involved.

IF REQUESTED the test can also test for the presence of fluke eggs (a different suspension fluid is used) and will identify the presence of fluke IF it is in the egg laying stage of its development.

Also worthy of note is that roughly 50% of the results we see have a count of <50epg, and thus have saved the owners the expense and time of worming.

Thanks
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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 01:28:59 pm »
I agree with everything SteveHants has said, except this bit:

Generally speaking, treating things 'just in case' is how resistance to drugs is becoming more widespread.

Underdosing is the worst offender; you expose some parasites to a non-fatal dose of a drug; just about the best way there is to teach them how to combat it!

Smallholders are quite likely to unwittingly underdose as few will have weigh crates to check the weight of their sheep. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 01:50:15 pm »
That is true, of course - I always dose the whole flock at the weight of the heaviest animal +5kgs just to be on the safe side (unless ewes and lambs are mixed). I don't go through and weigh them all each time, but I have a pretty good idea what the heaviest weigh, there are usually instructions on the side of wormers advising people to dose at the weight of the heaviest animal, so I hope most have this covered, although I could be wrong.


What I meant was: every time you worm, it never kills all the worms and those left are resistant to the wormer, the more times you worm, the more you select for the resistant worms.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 01:56:09 pm »
What I meant was: every time you worm, it never kills all the worms and those left are resistant to the wormer, the more times you worm, the more you select for the resistant worms.
This is also true.  Hence the advice to leave the treated sheep on the same pasture they've been on for a few days, so that the remaining, resistant worms are diluted by the worms already there.  Over time, however, if you have resistant worms, they'll spread to all your pasture. :(
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Pedwardine

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • South Lincolnshire
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 04:16:58 pm »
Just thought I ought to say,the reason we tend to Dectomax annually is that we have had problems in the past with wool slip which is also down to a pesky parasite. So many of the darned things! Also we were advised to Dectomax every year as a matter of course. It's worked well for us.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 04:18:45 pm by Pedwardine »

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 04:40:02 pm »
I can see why one might dectomax annually if one had a hill flock who were gathered 4 times a year or similar.


If that isn't you - ie your sheep are fairly gatherable and not tucked away up a mountain somewhere, I'm not sure why you would do it. Dectomax contains one of the more powerful wormers known and once you have worms resistant to that on your pasture - where do you go from there?


Yes, it treats scab and lice, so use it to treat scab and lice if/when they occur - or something milder if you can get away with it (not for scab, obviously).


The only medicines I would ever give routinely are heptavac or similar and flukicides in fluke country. 

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 04:43:31 pm »
This is also true.  Hence the advice to leave the treated sheep on the same pasture they've been on for a few days, so that the remaining, resistant worms are diluted by the worms already there.  Over time, however, if you have resistant worms, they'll spread to all your pasture. :(


Just as a by-the-by; they are now reckoning that you should now leave sheep on pasture for 2 weeks after worming. Or, this was what was being said at the SHAWG conference in November.

Remy

  • Joined Dec 2011
Re: eggs and worms in droppings
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 07:00:45 pm »
Is it just me, or do others not have the facilities to move sheep off pasture after worming?  I have had so many problems with mine that I am having to worm more frequently but need to keep pasture clean for my ewes when they lamb, so wormed sheep have to stay where they are.
1 horse, 2 ponies, 4 dogs, 2 Kune Kunes, a variety of sheep

 
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