[Dottie]

Hey Anke, let's get a few things straight, shall we?

We didn't just walk into the field, the sheep was near a footpath which runs through the field and was found by a distressed elderly neighbour walking her dogs who rang us to see if we could help. 

When we got to the field my partner rang the farmer, no response.  If we had left the sheep in the field she would most likely have been dead my morning, or at least the crows would have started on her.

We took the sheep to the barn assuming the farmer would collect her the following day.  We put her on some straw, gave her water and some hay and cubes and messaged the farmer again.  And again later that evening to assure him the sheep was still alive although weak.  And the following morning.  Comes a point where it gets embarrassing.

The farmer may well be up to his eyes in lambing, but how long does it take to text "cheers mate, hang on to her and I'll be round to get her in the next few days".  We do know this farmer and he knows us and exactly where we live.
His field is opposite our property so we can see it from half the windows in our house.  I did not say that the farmer never checks, I said his checking is hit and miss as this field is not part of his home farm.  However, if he has been to the field to check and feed the remaining ewes, it would take him literally two minutes to drive to our property from that field.

The vets were happy to treat the sheep, even though she was not mine, and took her tag numbers for their records.
If the farmer "decides to take this further" he won't have a leg to stand on as I will involve RSPCA, trading standards, and the vets who are on record as saying the sheep is nothing but skin and bone through malnourishment, and has scab, which has now been treated.

And to the other posters, thank you, but why on earth would I stay on a forum where people are spoken to like this on the basis of post asking for help?  The only reason I came back on was I'd had an email saying Rosemary had mentioned me and I thought it might have been about quantities of ivy ... to find yet again I am being accused of criminal activity and lies by a keyboard warrior who seems to believe that I have, through choice, stolen a dying sheep which has already cost me £100s in vets fees, not to mention time, energy and worry.  When the truth is that we thought we were doing the famer a favour by just getting the sheep in from the field for him, and fully expected him to come and collect her or at least take some responsbility for her welfare. 

Anyway, despite our best efforts and our best intentions (despite what some might think) the sheep is dead, it would appear her heart gave up on her.  So the farmer will certainly be getting her back now. 

[Rosemary]

So my post has been taken off for stating the obvious - where are we going to end up if people just decide to go into someone else's field and take out a sheep, bring it home to their shed and to all end and purposes take over it's care? And being applauded for it? For iof the farmer decides to take this further will get them a criminal record?


Livestock is the property of the legal owner, so if the owner does not come for it when informed that it is not well, the only legal route is to inform the police/RSPCA, even if you do not agree with their modus operandi.


And of course we all take the original poster's word as being true, the farmer may be up to his/her ears in lambing and just hasn't got the time/energy to come for a single ewe in a field miles away. And how do they know s/he never checks, do they have a camera on the field? It is all well and good to be able to care for individual ewes if you have a small flock, but if you have 1000's it is a different ball game.

Frankly, I find your input here abhorrent.

[Fleecewife]

I've been thinking about this exchange and I've come to the conclusion that @Anke 's post, the one that was removed, was perfectly OK.  She was just putting out a warning that a shepherd/farmer might not take kindly to what happened, to make sure that the OP was not taken by surprise by a negative reaction.  Just presenting a realistic downside to the action the OP had taken. Anke was not initially accusing the OP of theft but trying to warn her that what she had done could be seen or be presented that way by the sheep's owner.  At that point it was not clear that the OP knew the farmer concerned.
So let's not get our knickers in a twist.  Anke contributes a lot of very useful information to this group and is valued for that.
For the OP, we all tried our best to give her helpful information but sadly the sheep died. End of story.

[Rosemary]

Theft is the intention to premenently deprive.

[Fleecewife]

Theft is the intention to premenently deprive.

@Anke 's comment was pointing out that there were different viewpoints from which to judge that. The OP knew she did not intend to 'steal' the sheep, but to heal it; the owner of the sheep may well have had the viewpoint that she was stealing his sheep.  It's little to do with the fact, all to do with the perception.
All this goes to show how fraught it is making any contributions on social media     On a New Scientist f page, I've just been cursed at and told I'm a 'silly Snowflake' and a 'something warrior', hiding behind a silly pseudonym, all for attempting to defend the mental abilities of Neanderthal Man and prevent 'Neanderthal' being used as a derogatory term     Sunshine    all the way 

[Dottie]

It's not really 'end of story' fleece wife if you continue to discuss me.  Which bit of "we contacted the farmer to tell him we had the sheep" do you think Anke didn't understand?  How could we have contacted the farmer if we didn't know who he was?  And how could we have expected him to collect the sheep if he didn't know where it was and who had it. How on earth could the farmer believe I was trying to steal his sheep when we contacted him numerous times to tell him we had her?  The only thing the farmer could reasonably be annoyed about was that I called a vet when he might not have bothered, but I had already forseen that and confirmed with the vet that I would be paying the bill.  I also made that clear on this forum.

FYI I did not intend to 'heal' the sheep at all.  I intended to get her from the field to limit her suffering and pass her on to the farmer for him to carry out any treatment he saw fit.  If that was a bullet in the head, or left to die in the corner of his barn, that was his call.  It was only when the farmer didn't contact us at all that I felt that I had to take some responsibility for the sheep.  As previously stated, I fully intended to pay the vets fees, and if the sheep had survived would have offered to buy her from the farmer as her value as a breeding ewe and chances of long term survival had obviously diminished.

I've been accused of being a liar and a thief on the basis of a post asking for help.  So let's put everyone's minds to rest, shall we, and then you can stop speculating about me and my levels of honesty vs stupidity in this situation.  I do wonder whether you think I should have just left the sheep in the field to be eaten alive by crows?  Or left her suffering for hours and to eventually die in my barn trying to deliver an aborted lamb?

The farmer has collected his dead sheep.
The farmer will be paying the vets bill - and he has volunteered this without any prompting from us. 
The farmer will not be pressing criminal charges(!)

Of couse I could be making all of this up, and I could infact be the mastermind behind the Great Dying Sheep Heist of 2023. 

[Fleecewife]

The Accidental Smallholder is the friendliest and most helpful smallholding group I know. We have been running for a long time, with very knowledgeable members helping people and animals in a huge variety of situations.  You came to our group, you asked your question, we tried to help, we sympathised, you wilfully misunderstood and you flew into a rant against us in spite of explanations.  I am not here to enter into a fight, but was attempting to smooth the waters.
You clearly are not happy with the forum, we are sorry this is so, feel free to leave @Dottie .

[Dottie]

Some of the people on this forum have been extremely friendly and helpful.

And some are probably best described using similar words that you encountered on the New Scientist forum.

I'd more than happily leave this thread (and forum) alone if others could do the same.  I didn't 'wilfully misunderstand' anything.  I was accused of stealing the sheep, which was absolutely ridiculous. And then I was accused of lying about the situation. You weren't attempting to smooth the waters - you were defending the person who accused me of theft and lying. But apparently I'm not allowed to defend myself or give my point of view. 

As you say, making comments on social media is fraught with difficulties.  So why couldn't you just leave things rest and not continue discussing me?

[cans]

Since I was the one who requested input from the sheepie people I feel in part responsible for the way this conversation has headed.
Therefore I respectfully request that who ever is able to do so, please lock this thread.

No offence intended towards anyone