[Blacksheep]

Just a reminder to use your vote regarding bringing lambing forward to 1st December.

I feel that this is an important issue and good to have the opportunity to vote, normally if a change is made it seems that it is assumed that all those that keep quiet and don't write a letter of complaint are in favour of the change.

If you would like to do some showing then you have to bear in mind that you would need to lamb this early if you want to give your lambs a chance in the show ring against 1st December born lambs. The same would apply at pedigree sales, the earlier born, bigger lambs will be command the better prices. 
For us it would mean housing for an extended period through winter (and a need to build a large new barn to be able to do this) and considerable additional feed and bedding bill. I also have concerns about how healthy it is for rumen development of lambs that are not on grass for the first few months. We don't do all the big shows, but enjoy taking our sheep to some of the nearer shows with Zwartbles classes, and would like to be able to take a few lambs to pedigree sales without them penalised for being much smaller.

Hope its ok to post here, but there do seem to be a few Zwartbles breeders frequenting this board!

[zwartbles]

Hi Blacksheep

we keep all our stock out and lamb outdoors as well. This year we lambed in March and April and sheared mid/end May. We only do a couple of local shows and have to go in "other continental" breeds as a rule.There are not many other Zwartbles showers near us so always mixed class.
Only do it for fun and to see kids come to see our pretty black lambs.
Some lambs go in November and others we keep through until March/April and they taste delicious with later finishing, all on grass.
I see no future for us lambing in December, but then we don't aim to be a producer of champions. Although we expect Redgate Titus to do well at local shows in the "any old ram you've got" class !!

[allyb]

Hi Blacksheep
               
We lamb a pedigree flock of Zwartbles and dont agree with bringing lambing forward and yes have all ready voted for this all this is doing in my eyes is letting the liars not feel guilty anymore.How many registered lambs do you see born on 1st Jan yeah the sheep always lamb spot on that  day (yeah right). Next year if this goes through how many will be born on 1st Dec and then it goes on .We lamb in end of Jan/Feb for weather conditions in Central Scotland.Also to be honest we show our sheep and its Quality not quantity that a prefer and any judge worth there salt will see this. Sorry for this ramble but a dont agree with bringing it forward   

[mart2671]

Hi well ive only just started my Pedigree Zwartbles Flock , have kept them as commercial cross bred ewes for 10 plus years. Iam lambing beginning of March this year which is a month earlier than normal as i would like to do a few shows perhaps if i get anything any good . A decent judge should be able to judge a class with stock born in January at one end April at the other and still be able to sort the differance in age . After years of showing judging goats biggest isnt always best !!!
Still unsure which way ill vote but am leaning more to one side .   

[Victorian Farmer]

Zwartbles we have 40 i only lamb in April i could show but i sell on the good 1s to a breeder that shows ,The stock is very good i dont think you could breed on the 1st of December in a bad winter in the north of Scotland.

[Blacksheep]

Hi AllyB
Have to say I think you are probably right about the underlying reasons for the change in lambing date, and it will then only lead to the same few bringing their lambing date even further forward. One argument is that the 1st January can't be 'policed', but actually it is probably only a few flocks involved and easier enough to spot the likely ones at the shows and carry out checks in following years.
The breed are a large and early maturing breed, February and March rams being more than capable of working in their lamb year, so their should not really be a need to bring forward the date further.

I would like to think that a judge could make a decision on a lambs differing in age by a few months but it is not what happens, there may be an odd exception, and then there will be complaints.  One top show breeder told me a younger lamb has to be judged more on its potential compared to an older lamb and judging is not about potential but what you see on the day, I think it would have to be a brave judge to place a significantly younger lamb above older lambs in a class, unless the standard of older lambs was exceptionally low.

I think this move forces you decide whether you are primarily breeding for showing, and if so the need to significantly alter your management as well as increase costs, and potentially affect the welfare of the animals,  rather than being able to to enjoy producing sheep within their natural breeding cycle and enjoy showing some of the lambs too as well as selling some of the better ones reasonably well at pedigree sales.  Of course I realise that I will still be able to show at some of the very local shows in mixed breed classes, but not the Zwartbles classes, of which we are fortunate to have quite a few of at shows in my area, if I want my animals to have a decent chance.

Lol zwartbles I hope Titus is successful in winning you a championship in the 'Any old ram you have got' class!! I think you mentioned that there were other Zwartbles in your class when you showed previously  so a few more and you may be able to persuade some show organisers to have Zwartbles classes.

[zwartbles]

Hope so, Blacksheep. He really is a remarkable piece of kit!! Must be 130kg now at under 2 years old. He's just finished working. Picture shows him last May having just had his wooly vest removed.

[allyb]

Hi Zwartbles Thats a cracking looking Tup.Also remember there is a Zwartble in lamb sale next fri in Carlisle.Theres also ewe lambs there. I agree Blacksheep that its only a few breeders and here s hoping its rejected 
                 

[Blacksheep]

Hope so, Blacksheep. He really is a remarkable piece of kit!! Must be 130kg now at under 2 years old. He's just finished working. Picture shows him last May having just had his wooly vest removed.

Lol we have had some good feedback about our rams progeny but haven't yet had one described like that!! Glad that you are pleased with him, he may yet continue to grow and get bit heavier during his 2 year old year too! 

[Blacksheep]

Hi Zwartbles Thats a cracking looking Tup.Also remember there is a Zwartble in lamb sale next fri in Carlisle.Theres also ewe lambs there. I agree Blacksheep that its only a few breeders and here s hoping its rejected 
               

Are you going to the sale Ally, buying or selling?  There is a good entry of sheep for Friday, unfortunately we wont make it up to Carlisle this time, probably just as well as I don't think we can squeeze any more sheep onto the farm! Should be a good sale, there are some pictures of some of the ewes entered on facebook.

[allyb]

Hi Blacksheep Yes will be at Carlisle,there s a couple of sheep that interest me, We ve sold everything this year apart from some ewe lambs and shearling tup destined for the Highland Show next year .Also note that most of the lambs entered are born in April and with feed prices the way they are just now itll be costly to keep them till next year with no return so will be interested in prices.Whats your flock prefix blacksheep

[Blacksheep]

Hi Ally, we are Redgate Flock, 252 (we have a fb page with pictures). Which flock are you? It sounds like you must have some very nice stock if you have some destined for the Highland, have you shown there before?
Yes will be interesting to hear how the sale goes, November Worcester sale certainly had lower prices than the August sale, however with plenty of people attending the AGM, and Christmas looming I imagine the best stock will achieve high prices on Friday. Good luck with your prospective purchases! 

[allyb]

Hi Blacksheep Our Flocks Greystone 818.I have tried to breedsome nice sheep true to breed standard and made some good prices for our Tup lambs this year. We kept most of  this years ewe lambs.We do have some good stock our Tup is a cracker and hence the shearling being kept.Just off the phone to person who knows the sheep im interested in and both carrying twins.Have you scanned yours yet.

[Blacksheep]

Hi Ally it sounds like you are doing well with your flock, and had a very good find in your tup, did you buy him at Carlisle? 
Had our ewes scanned yesterday! Have posted here about our scanning here (hope the link works!) http://www.facebook.com/pages/Redgate-Zwartbles-Flock-252/169057406487091

Not looking good for us re timing of Schmallenberg virus circulating in our area, so will just have to wait and see. Certainly had a surprise with some of the empty ewes, none having appeared to have returned to the tup recently, so not sure if this is caused by the virus, but assume possibly so. The scanner has seen a lot more empty ewes than usual, as well as reabsorbtions. Think we might have some cades to rehome with all the triplets we are expecting though!
How about you, have yours been scanned yet?
Will be interested to hear about your purchases on Friday!

[allyb]

Hi Blacksheep Bought our Tup Tardoes Sanny from Matthew simpson he is a cracker Overall champion at Stirling sale and has sired some special lambs hopefully you ll see the shearling next yr at Carlisle as thats where he is destined also sold his brother to last yrs highland show champ as there new stock tup;.we havent scanned yet next week so will be interesting had quads last yr and looking forward to lambing as always. Strange that some of yours scanned empty and never returned.