Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time  (Read 5856 times)

daveh

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • South Northamptonshire
Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« on: March 14, 2012, 11:36:00 am »
I wonder if someone out there who has used the EAML process can help. I'm in England.

I've booked my two OSB pigs for slaughter on the 29th March and will be using the EAML process for the first time. Incidentally, the slaughterhouse chap I spoke to said they too were also new to the process so couldn't be too certain on their answers to my questions.

Is the paper Food Chain Information form now redundant? Am I right in thinking it is now included in the Eaml process?

How soon before the slaughter date should you notify the movement? Sod's law says my computer will play up on the day and I would like to get everything sorted out beforehand.

Regards,
David

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 12:04:26 pm »
This is the only part of the EAML sytem that actually works (in a fashion).
Yes the food chain info sheet in now redundant as all its quesions are on the AML.
Fill it in as soon as you know the date and time they're going, you will be able to choose you abbattoir from a drop down list if they've registered, you also need to know your vehicle registration and the times you are going and the marks/numbers you will use on the pigs, if you go to the GOS website forum in free speech theres an on going AML topic. You will need to print off two copies of the haulier sheet one to give to the abbattoir and one for your records.
HTH and good luck with your piggies sure they'll make some super pork for you.
Mandy  :pig:
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 12:06:11 pm by Fowgill Farm »

JulieS

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Devon - EX39 5RF
    • Ford Mill Farm
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 12:05:01 pm »
Yes, you are right, the FCI is all included in the new process - so no need for the paper one now.

I usually get mine done online during the week beforehand for slaughter, and then you just need to confirm the movement on the day.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Pedigree GOS Pigs and Butchery for Smallholders.

JulieS

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Devon - EX39 5RF
    • Ford Mill Farm
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 12:05:42 pm »
You got in just before me Mandy....and a much better answer too  :)

Pedigree GOS Pigs and Butchery for Smallholders.

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2012, 12:09:31 pm »
Its the only bit of the AML system i'm confident on, now farm to farm thats another story.................... ::) Dreading shifting my next batch of weaners as all new keepers!
Most of them collect on a weekend and don't know their vehicle reg until the day they're cominglet alone their CPh or herd number!
Mandy  :pig:

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 01:03:56 pm »
Mandy,

and if they haven't yet registered, then even more fun, you can do it for them, but must have herd no and holding no, but the one I did last October took several months for the buyer to sort out as the system refused to tie him and the move together!  Anyway hope that's sorted now.

I am still in discussions with Animal Health, as the only information by law you need to provide is :

   the address, including postcode and CPH number of the holdings from and to which the pigs are being moved
   the date of the movement;
   the number of pigs
   the identification mark of each of the pigs moved and if to a show, breeding centre, porcine semen centre, or export the unique individual identification number
   in the case of a movement from a market, the lot numbers of the pigs being moved

Everything else is optional as it either comes under different regulations  (eg WATO) and so can if you wish be dealt with seperately on anther piece of paper, is not needed on many cases, or no regulations at all that require it to be in writing.  Registration number is not required under PRIMO, so not required on-line.  It is not required under WATO either, althouth the vehicle must be certified if over 8 hour journey, so was on the old paper form just to let the transporter keep a note of which vehicle was used for each journey.  Anyway, upshot is that hopefully when i have finished the tortuous process of getting Defra lawyers to agree what the law says, we might get a "what you need to do" on the system, but even then would expect that ding this will be like pulling teeth, Defra love to collect data  - believing that this somehow equates to reducing risk, which of course it does not.

www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

daveh

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • South Northamptonshire
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 06:40:38 pm »
Many thanks for the replies folks. I'll try entering the movement next week.

The pigs have an ear tag with the herd number of the breeder together with their individual number, i.e. OX1234/277. My herd number is NS1234. Any thoughts on how the system deals with this? I have to say that the slaughterhouse don't seem too bothered with this level of detail.

Regards,
David

JulieS

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Devon - EX39 5RF
    • Ford Mill Farm
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 06:56:50 pm »
You will need metal tags with your herd mark on for them to go to abattoir.

You don't need to remove the breeders tags.

Pedigree GOS Pigs and Butchery for Smallholders.

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 09:58:36 am »
You will need metal tags with your herd mark on for them to go to abattoir.

You don't need to remove the breeders tags.

If the breeders tags are plastic then you will defo need metal ones of your own, however if the breeders are metal you can send them on the breeders tags as thro the movement system they are still traceable as they came to you on those numbers and technically can go on them. Lots of people who take weaners from me send their pigs to the butchers on my tags and i have never encountered any comeback as they are always traceable back to me & their keepers thro the system.
HTh
mandy  :pig:

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 06:37:07 pm »
Technically, under the Pigs Records Identification and Movement Orders 2011- known as PRIMO (one for each country, but all say the same) each time a pig moves premises, it must be newly identified.  Under a year it can move on a temporary mark, EXCEPT to market or abattoir.

So if you weaners come with a tag, Primo insists that you add you own herdmark tag (or optionally slapmark if going to the abattoir or to market/abattoir) if you move them on.

Clearly this just leads to confusion at an abattoir if they arrive with two sets of tags, or tag and slapmark with different numbers.

However abattoirs don't give a damn about whether the mark is assigned to you (and have no way of tracking it), so will take it with any valid ID, and if you go with tags they arrived on, your're unlikely to get done unless your pig fails a test at the abattoir (arrives unable to walk, collapses and dies before slaughter, is found with some major disease when killed)!

HOWEVER, one of the joys of e-aml is that you can only put in your herdmark as ID on the form, so Mandy, from 1st April you'll start to find that your customers cannot use you herdmark as it'll not match the form, and will result in a mismatch at the abattoir if the form says their herdmark, but they arrive with yours.  This will risk the pigs will be condemed as they don't match paperwork, so FCI is invalid.  So you may want to drop tagging them (as above it'll cause confusion with two sets of tags), and move on a temporary mark, with customers putting their own herdmark on before slaughter.



 
www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

reedos

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Barton Upon Humber
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 07:44:30 pm »
The abattoir I used was quite happy with plastic ear tags ;D

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2012, 10:09:58 am »

HOWEVER, one of the joys of e-aml is that you can only put in your herdmark as ID on the form, so Mandy, from 1st April you'll start to find that your customers cannot use you herdmark as it'll not match the form, and will result in a mismatch at the abattoir if the form says their herdmark, but they arrive with yours.  This will risk the pigs will be condemed as they don't match paperwork, so FCI is invalid.  So you may want to drop tagging them (as above it'll cause confusion with two sets of tags), and move on a temporary mark, with customers putting their own herdmark on before slaughter.

This just shows how little input has gone into this from the people who actually use it. My pigs are birth noted so each has an individual number, the last four i sold therefore have my tags in and the people who bought them are having a go at raising pigs for meat, depending how they get on they may never have pigs again but now they'll have to go to the expense of buying their own tags/slapmark for 4 pigs!  ???
It would be better if in cases like this if the system allowed the herdmark they were born on to be continued thro out their lives however short/long as surely the traceability apect is thro the CPH movements system.
AAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH ::) >:(
Mandy  :pig:

daveh

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • South Northamptonshire
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2012, 11:13:15 am »
When I rang the slaughterhouse I specifically asked if plastic tags were acceptable and they replied in the affirmative.

I will take the pigs with only the breeders tags. The slaugterhouse seems fairly laid back about such things. Isn't it the case that after killing one of the first things done in process is the removal of the ears together with their tags?

Regards,
David 

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 12:39:16 pm »
it depends on the slaughter house  if they have a contract for pigs ears or not BUT IT IS STEALING our slaughter house takes them with plastic tags with written numbers on     all tags come back and are very readable
i think they asked a commercial pig expert for advice on the identification of pigs that is why they have the mess that is the traceability of pigs  i know the easy way as you do Mandy  but they do not :farmer:

daveh

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • South Northamptonshire
Re: Slaughter nears - Using EAML for the first time
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2012, 02:38:53 pm »
So it seems that the powers that be have made a complete pig's ear of the system. 

Regards,
David

 

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