[robert waddell]

there seams to be intense interest in the pregnancy diagnostic machine on this site
yes it will remove a certain element of doubt  is it up the stick or is she having me on
the cost would put many of well you could get two very good gilts for that price and probably get in pig as well given the harsh economies of the pig world or any animal husbandry
 
cattle when we had them prior to housing in winter they were all PDI  either to confirm what you already knew or to eliminate empty bellies being carried on the strength of well it could be   that worked for us and coincide with dehorning and any other husbandry that was required     prior to the suckler herd we ran a dairy herd and never bothered with this aspect
 
then we moved onto pigs    and in all honesty can say they they have never washed there face financially     the management of them and the stock manship accrued from years of animal husbandry is put to good use with the pigs       you put the sows or gilts in with the boar and as others say you vulva watch and also signs of mounting with dirty trotters and the other give away both lying knackered    now we have always written down the date of copulation either pigs or cattle  sheep differ slightly in that they are raddled  now it is a requirement of pedigree breeding that you have accurate records     so the sow is in for 6 weeks or if timed correctly you can get it down to 3 weeks  you observe the signs of the first service then 21 days latter it is obviously  taken the first service or comes back for the second cycle      you then write down 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days  latter is the due date   simples         if the boar is your own they can run together until just before 2 weeks from the expected due date      and by this time there will be obvious signs of pregnancy       the litter size is up to nature     again at delivery or farrowing stock manship comes into play  as to just what is going on or not as the case may be
 
so you have made the decision  to spend your money and even share the cost and the machine  leaving your herd open to disease transporting it round the country   this would never even be considered within the commercial herds   and for what   to replace the skill or stock manship and rely on yet another piece of elecectrikery that your life and your wallet could do without   get one get a dozen if you want    life went on and pigs were born before this was invented   sheep are slightly different in so far as feeding singles and twins and even triplets       our vet told us an interesting story of the new sheep owner that was proud that when his flock had part lambed he had a birth rate of 50% when told he should have 100%or more for a lowland flock  he took the arsehole and did not use that vet again   the vet did inform the farmer that supplied the sheep to get the guy sorted out as it was a welfare issue 
 
personally with pigs i just don't see the point they have a way of balancing things out themselves

[HappyHippy]

I don't see why you feel the need to make this about husbandry 

What's so wrong with wanting to check ? With wanting to know ? Or with trying to learn a bit more ?

Wouldn't it be better to quickly scan a sow during farrowing to make sure she'd delivered ALL the piglets, thus ensuring they get the best chance of surviving, getting colostrum at the right time, and aren't stuck inside the sow potentially causing infection or at worst her demise ? 

[robert waddell]

if it is not about husbandry  then what is it about then
 
obviously you don't like surprises everything has to run like clockwork         what could you learn from this tester other than yes she is pregnant or no she is not     i do know that the first sheep scanners  the operatives that is did have a very good income from it until everybody piled in
 
with pigs that is why they have multiple births to provide when things go wrong   if you have 16 in a farrowing just how can you guarantee the last will get as much colostrum as the first   at farrowing when the piglets start suckling that relaxes the sow even more and further enhances the birth   if there is one left behind you will be aware of it long before infection and death sets in  you have more chance of infection and death with going in to assist    piglets come out like bullets totally different to any other birth process    the only exception to this was a hereford cross cow we had ten minutes before calving she would futter about then lay down calve ejected and back on feet to lick it  and always a heifer and never a dead one 

[lill]

Jesus, what the hell did they do long ago, there was no interference with probes, scanners etc for pigs just because you have the most uptodate fantosh equipment does not make you a better farmer/stock person, nothing can EVER compensate for the years of experience without these gubbings. Once these electronics are relied on there is no person going to learn anything, the machine is going to do it all for you.

[HappyHippy]

Why does it bother you what anyone else does or doesn't do 

What is wrong with a bit of tech  (to help btw, not to do the job  )

You didn't answer my question - what is wrong with wanting to check and learn and improve ?

[robert waddell]

i have an opinion the same as you have   it does not bother me what you or anybody else does   and as far as i can see the only beneficiary will be the courier company's ferrying it round the country   you would need it after service  then at the farrowing  multiplied by the sows you have
am i not correct
 
nothing wrong with a bit of high tec there are other options out there as Mandy has pointed out and more experienced operators
 
i thought i had answered your question maybe not the answer you wanted   your eye should tell you and just what or how are you going to improve

[Hassle]

The question is good management or bad management.

My response is neither.  Times change when my dad was young he would race around the farm carrying two 8 stone grain bags. I now get told I always look for the easy way as I carry 6 x 50kg bags using a JCB loadall.

If someone wants to buy equipment to assist them it's not really for me to say if they are good or bad managers that is not how I judge management..  If they chose not to, again it is not for me to say. However I still have an opinion but that is on the equipment.

If I had your knowledge I might try voice my opinion on the equipment, but I don't so all I can give an opinion on is your post

Regards

[Berkshire Boy]

I must agree with Robert on this one. I really can't see the point of spending that sort of money on a piece of kit that will tell you something that you should really know.
I am not an experienced stockman unlike many on here but I can tell that my sows are pregnant. Like Robert says there are plenty of signs to watch for and then I mark it on the calendar and mostly on the dot.
In these days when the topic on here is how to save a few quid on feed or bedding it seems mad to fork out £300 pound on this, but of course that is your choice just giving my opinion.

[tizaala]

A few years ago when I could afford hollidays , I visited the island of Kos , just outside the town of kos in the shadow of a block of modern flats was a tin shack with an acre of stony dust . the old couple that lived there were ploughing this arid wasteland with a wooden plough pulled by the woman with a length of rope , the husband guided the sharpend stick through the rough ground. It was a scene you could have witnessed a thousand years ago. no doubt they too claimed that the old ways were the best ways. It was the only way they knew and the world had passed them by. I'm just amazed that Robert has a computer.  abacus 

[Fowgill Farm]

Okay i have a foot in both camps here. I have free use of a neighbours doppler which he kindly operates for me, i only use it really in the winter when its difficult to see seasons on gilts/sows so you're not sure if they've taken more so if you don't have your own boar to check them out for you. Technology is only a good thing if it works for you and your situation and its is each keepers perogative to do whats best for their stock, some people are comforted by the assurance technology can bring, i'm sure Microsoft will design a pregnancy detector phone app before long . However nature as Robert says works in miraculous ways and pigs have been having piglets for thousands of years without any human or technicalogical intevention of any kind and will probably go on doing so.
Like Robert & Lill & BB i mark the service dates on the calendar and then use my trusty GOS year plan to claculate the likely due date, they usually farrow four days over it so i'm never far out.
Even with a scanner you should still be marking your dates on the calendar, its not going to forecast when they're due and this is part of pig husbandary, keeping records and planning ahead.
i hope this is a balanced view and that all participants can agree to differ, everyone is entitiled to their opinions and long may that continue.
Mandy 
ps Tiz whats an abacus???

[P6te]

 Once upon a time if I wanted to research a topic I would make my way to the local library, look in the index for the book I wanted and if I was lucky it was in and I would borrow it for a week or two. It may be out with someone else in which case I'd log my request and await its return.  If it was a good book I may go to a book shop on the high street and order it and a couple of weeks later pick it up and bring it home to read again.


Things then moved on such that I could search for books on the internet, I may even get a preview and the chances are I'd find a reader review of it somewhere. I can order and pay for it on line and the next day it arrives on my doorstep.

I then discovered on the internet there are sites where people with the same interest as me could ask questions and exchange views.  One site I think is particularly good is here.

Some people (Robert?  ) may be reading this on a green screen monitor attached to a desktop PC with an internal 56kb modem , others may be viewing on a laptop or tablet connected wirelessly or using WAP on a smart phone but whatever we are using technology has moved us all into a new world.


We all have our own reasons for adopting new technology but as has been said on this thread, it's not good or bad management, just different approaches and everyone to their own.

Pete

[the great composto]

Not a case of good or bad  - just different

[Button End Beasts]

Wow, this thread is almost as exciting as the Olympics. I'm with team technology. I think any bit of kit that helps to make ones life easier can only be a good thing. As others have said, it's has nothing to do with good or bad stockmanship. At the end of the day, you still need to have a good understanding of why you are using the technology and what to do should the pievce of kit fail.


Now can someone come up with an amazing piece of kit to clean off my stinking cocker spaniel who is filthy after nearly every single walk

[HappyHippy]

Now can someone come up with an amazing piece of kit to clean off my stinking cocker spaniel who is filthy after nearly every single walk

Can you not steam clean him     
I do know someone who has little soft 'shoes' for her dog to keep their feet clean when they go out (saves washing the floor apparently  ) maybe you could extend it to thigh high boots and a rain mac for your stinky spaniel 
Has he got a fair bit of white on him by chance It always seems to be white animals who like the stinky stuff  (speaking as the owner of a seldom-white dog  )

[Berkshire Boy]

I would just like to say that I was not criticising anyones stockmanship  its just that I am happy with what works for me and everyone else can do what suits them.