[waterhouse]

Covers calves, pigs, hens but not sheep.  Is there a similar piece of legislation for sheep?

[robert waddell]

oaklands thanks for the reply BUT it does not state it is illegal to keep one pig (from what you have quoted)it has to be the written word not something by interpretation anyway you say you are right in your assertion
we purchased a single pig years ago from a vet that just kept the one she inseminated her(the pig) and produced several litters of piglets
on arrival back home with the pig introduced her to the boar with gate separating them the two chomping at each other after approx 4 hours they were intigrated together(we had been informed by an experienced pig keeper boars will fight but you wont get a sow and boar fighting)they immediately fought and she beat the boar after this when she was in season(both in the same wood and he would not come near her even to feed) and wiggling her a### in front of him, he took off not interested, after two or three cycles she was burgers and sausages

[oaklandspigs]

oaklands thanks for the reply BUT it does not state it is illegal to keep one pig (from what you have quoted)it has to be the written word not something by interpretation anyway you say you are right in your assertion

Sorry Lillian, you have lost me again !
"to allow each pig to see other pigs" cannot be fullfilled as a legal requirement if there is only one pig on the premises. 
Ipso facto
PS would be good if you would respond on the Marking pigs post rather than leaving it hanging...

[oaklandspigs]

Oh, and apologies to Wales, your provisons are exactly the same as England, but covered under the "The Welfare of Farmed Animals (Wales) Regulations 2007"

[oaklandspigs]

Covers calves, pigs, hens but not sheep.  Is there a similar piece of legislation for sheep?

The regulations have two parts, general conditions which are in schedule 1.  These include provisions on care, housing, feeding water, breeding, record keeping etc.
Additional provisions for specific animals are in the subsequent schedules, sheep have no specific additional reqs.

For those intersted in reading, you can find the regulations at the sites below
Wales http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2007/3070/contents/made
England  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/2078/contents/made
Scotland http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2010/388/contents/made

[robert waddell]

yes it is written about pigs        "The accommodation used for pigs must be constructed in such a way as to allow each pig to
(c)see other pigs, except
(i)where the pig is isolated for veterinary reasons; or
(ii)in the week before the expected farrowing time and during farrowing, when sows and gilts may be kept out of sight of other pigs;"


it does not state it is illegal       that is the point     was that vet keeping her pig illegally

[oaklandspigs]

it does not state it is illegal       that is the point     was that vet keeping her pig illegally

Am still not clear what point you are making

Laws can be framed in either positive "XX shall happen" or negative "yy shall not happen". 

This one says "allow each pig to see other pigs", so is a positive phrase used to show what must happen to be legal.

To be contrary to a legal regulation is to against the law ie illegal, whether the requirement is positive or negative.

So the answer is yes, unless it was not a farmed animal under the definition.

[robert waddell]

now with the legislation that you have quoted           a single pregnant sow could be sold a week before she is due to farrow put into a farrowing pen farrows (now you know and i know that a suckling mother pig could not care less about other pigs and indeed other pigs can upset them) she has her piglets .a hole in the regulations that you could put an hgv through sideways
now back to the single pig and the vet i thought i was quite clear in what i had written the sow had several litters in the vets care. by your assertion(for food production the piglets were for food)  was the vet  acting illegally?
it is just that your original posting stating it is ILLEGAL to keep one pig  (unless as a pet) as i had never come across this before and was merely asking where it was written

[oaklandspigs]

Thanks for that - I think we are both now clear on the law.

[Stevie G]

Happy Hippy chill, it was me who mentioned J C, not you, and I think everyone is aware of that.
I am trying to get to the bottom of something as on the pigsite there is 3 treads one saying "homes needed" 07577598073(JC), "Free pigs to good homes, L-F-P 07577598073, PiggyRescue(bedford) [email protected].(Matthew Fifths wife?)
So does anyone know how is the best place to go to or recommend. My moneys on PiggyRescue(run by MW's wife?), but if someones give pigs away, then that is a different matter!!!!
Is there anyone who can enlighten me!!!!!!!

[robert waddell]

oaklands i am still not convinced          the regulations that you have kindly copied         it appears the regs are primarily intended for intensive pig production only once does it mention about outside pigs (that you have to provide a dry resting area) and nowhare does it say you CANNOT KEEP ONE PIG OR STATE YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST 2
at a public auction they sell pigs either one or all in the pen somebody bought ONE WEANER they had the cph number defra were present as were trading standards no questions asked was defra and ts equally as guilty as the keeper (by your assertions )there are several anomalies that are pertinant here
TRANSPORTING ANIMALS you need a certificate of competence to transport animals over a specified distance NOT SO you can travel the length of Britain with up to 4 animals providing there is an equal number of persons accompanying the animals without any certificate
MIXING FEED again you need a certificate for farm mixed feed NOT SO you can overlay one type of feed placed over another then the animals do there own mixing
DEATHS AND DISPOSSALS you have to pay to have your deadstock removed NO (and this is the big one that nobody has touched on with micro/pet pigs) if it is a pet and has a name you can bury it on your own land imagine the scenario pet pigs and other animals being buried up and down the country
as to being clear on the law we both have different interpretations
THE STANDSTILL PERIOD OF 20 DAYS FOR PIGS can be reduced within the regulations

[Stevie G]

Yes, but Oaklands are Tamworths(of which Iam sure that they are top quality), but which grow large, and he ain't giving them away for free or a small donation!!!!!!!!!

[HappyHippy]

WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GIVING THEM AWAY ?
I personally wouldn't touch any of the current UK 'micro' pigs if you're looking for one that's going to stay reliably small. These are the result of cross breeding of standard pigs and then using the smallest of the litters to breed with (runts, that any respectable breeder wouldn't even consider breeding from) they have no pedigree, are not a recognised breed and the only thing that makes them 'micro' is their owners/breeders claims. I don't think there's been a micro pig bred in the UK which has actually stayed small once fully grown - but I would LOVE to be proved wrong
Without meaning to sound abrupt Stevie G - what do you want them for ? If it's to export to Oz to start a breeding programme (I think that's where you are but maybe I'm wrong) I wouldn't even go there, you'll be throwing your money away. European micro pigs however, seem to be a different matter altogether. They are long established bloodlines and different to the mongral pigs being passed of as 'micros' in the UK. Wendy Scudamore imported hers from Eva Magnusson in Sweden - she should be your first point of contact in the UK as a well respected and well known pig breeder.
The amount of 'micro' pigs for sale on pre-loved and similar sites should alert you to the fact that no-one wants them anymore - even the breeders who would have gladly taken £500 of your hard earned cash a year ago are now giving them away for free Regardless of who has them or who bred them - all UK micro pigs originated from the "founder" Rob Rose in Cumbria and I wouldn't take any of them, even if they paid me too ! They are not pigs which I would breed from  If you want to know the why's and wherefores, please by all means let me know and I'll happily give you my thoughts on it - but I don't want to be a boar ;)on the subject 
HTH
Karen

[Stevie G]

Really do suggest you read what has been put previously, so that you fully understand what I am asking.
I do NOT want any micro pig, and yes I do live in OZ.
I was trying to find out where in the UK was the best place to purchase micros as their are people constantly asking this question.

[oaklandspigs]

My take on this is that Stevie G is a moderator on the Pigsite forum. The pigsite forum more than any other I visit gets lots of questions about micropigs -normally from people who have them and then find they either grow and grow, or have behaviour problems with their pig living in the 5th floor flat!

Recently a "rescue centre" in Cambridge had advertised they have lots of pigs looking for homes.  Stevie G (who might want to breed Micros in future as genuine article) lives in Eastern Australia is asking if any UK micropigs are worthy of attention, and/or if this centre is genuine or a dumping site for large micros.

I would echo much of Karen's comments (though worry about her blood pressure ) 

The old saying of "never buy a pig in a poke" applies.  Rescue centres will tend to be taking problems, and buying problems is generally not for newcomers unless they have lots of research, and it tends to be newcomers who would buy micro-pigs.  I do know peole who have bought micro-pigs and been very happy with them, but these are people who have kept them in groups and outside, and have lots of animal knowledge (typically dogs and horse people). I would not recommend buying any micro-pigs in the UK at present. In my view if people want a small cute pig - get a Kune Kune.  Ours (Wilmer) is one of my favorites, and always runs up from the group to try and greet me first.