The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Food & crafts => Food processing => Topic started by: Greenerlife on November 14, 2011, 07:20:10 pm

Title: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Greenerlife on November 14, 2011, 07:20:10 pm
Have made some beautiful italian style "tuna" pork - which the recipe says can be potted or canned.  Would love to have a go.  Does anybody have any experience with this?  Have looked at a few websites and have found contradictory statements about using pressure cookers for canning. 
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: yankieGirl on November 14, 2011, 11:55:24 pm
I canned venison this summer.  It was easy.  Cubed the meat.  Filled the jars.  Lid, ring.  Into canner.  Allow the pressure to build until the weight rocks gently (I have weights not a gauge that tells the pressure.).  Start timing 70 minutes at 10 pounds I think.   Allow the pressure to go back down when time is up.  Done!!!!!!
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Simon O on November 15, 2011, 07:28:44 am
BUT watch out for clostridium botulinum - 2 cases in Scotland this week, first cases for nearly 20 years in Scotland but commoner elsewhere - do your canning properly (Lloyd Grossman please note)
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Greenerlife on November 15, 2011, 10:54:24 am
Hmmm.  Have decided to freeze it!  The more I looked at information, the more confused I became. I wanted to bottle things in the kilner jars I have, which have glass lids and all the info I have seen has been for metal disc type lids.  Some places say you must NOT use a pressure cooker, some say you can (forgive the pun). My other half reckons that if you put a kilner jar with a rubber ring and a glass jar and lid in a pressure cooker, it will explode. 
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Greenerlife on November 16, 2011, 09:17:16 am
Ah - now that makes sense!  Thankyou Plantoid.  All the instructions I have found are for the disc and screw type Kilner jars which they screw on finger tight , but the air would escape and the pressure would seal them whereas I am not sure if it would work with the glass topped jars.  i presume the heat on finishing the process will seal the glass topped jars although i expect a few fingers will get scorched!  I will have a go now.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Rich/Jan on November 16, 2011, 09:50:06 am
I bottle lots of fruit and veg - not meat though.  In France you can buy a v large metal pot which sits on a gas ring (separate to cooker gas ring).  This is filled with water and Le Parfait bottled fruit and veg put into it (mine takes 13 1ltr bottles.  Bring to boil and hold at 100degrees for 1 hour.  The contents are then cooked and sterilized all in one go.  Leave to cool before removing from pot.  These glass containers are the Le Parfait type with a rubber seal and glass lid which is fixed to jar and closed by a spring.  Not described very well - sorry.  Seals can only be used once and should be discarded once contents used.  This year I have made loads of Passata as we had so many toms, and loads of pears.  Our neighbours do pate and other meats the same way but I dont - although I have tastes theirs.  Not bad.  I have kept the passata and pears etc for up to three years if I have bottled a glut. 
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Greenerlife on November 16, 2011, 10:06:33 am
Apparently it's ok to do fruit in a water bath as described above, but meat needs a higher temperature to get rid of any botulism, which is clearly quite important!  an I ask you a question about le parfaittype jars?  They are just like mine.  Do you eal them down when in the water bath or seal them after cooking?  Thanks for all the help people.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Rich/Jan on November 16, 2011, 10:33:55 am
Hi - Mine are sealed down before being immersed in the boiling water - otherwise they would take on the boiling liquid.  With the fruit I bottle it in sugar syrup filled up to just below an inch of the top and with the passata I boil up just the tomatoes (no water) add herbs and garlic and boil up for about 10 minutes.  I then use a blitzer to wizz up the herbs, flesh and skin - pass it through a seive and then put into the jars ready for the sterilizer.  In France sterilizers, gas boilers, jars etc are readily available in all supermarkets.  A lot of this type of preserving goes on over here and it is a sure way of making a good bumper crop of produce go further.  It is also possible to preserve various soups etc.  It does all take time and most of the glut is in August/September so its all systems go then - time to invite the family to help out.  If only!!
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on November 21, 2011, 11:37:11 pm
So I gather from all the posts is that the finger tight rubber seal or clipped down lid on the rubber seal will allow the jar to vent once the higher pressures have beeen reached and that as the pan cools the atmospheric pressure actually seals the lid to the gasket and also the gasket jar.

I might still  have an old cook book that gives times for 15 psi pressurre ( normal Prestige big weight setting )cooking times when bottling .
i will have a look for it over the next few days .

 
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Rich/Jan on November 23, 2011, 03:17:19 pm
Sorry should have made this clear in my post - I dont do the botttling in a pressure cooker under pressure - put sealed bottles in a v large pan (called a sterilizer over here - with a loose lid and hole in top for thermometer) - bring to boil then keep temperature on 100degrees for an hour.  Cool, label and store.  Voila.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on November 23, 2011, 03:26:09 pm
Thanks for that .

Today  I've sent two emails , one to Kilner Jars and one to the pressure cooker people at Prestige asking if they have any PDF bottling charts or information  for using a pressure cooker to sterilize and bottle various meats and all types of veg.in KILNER JARS.

 I'll put up any info I get back on this thread .
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Greenerlife on November 23, 2011, 07:12:56 pm
You are a star Plantoid!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: princesspiggy on November 25, 2011, 11:52:55 pm
FFW has a recipe for Rillons (pork belly) which he stores in a jar with its own fat for months in the cupboard.
no mention in his book about sterilising jars etc?
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on November 26, 2011, 10:49:12 pm
You are a star Plantoid!  :thumbsup:

 Update :-

I'm slowly getting info together wrt bottling stuff or canning as it is known over the other side of the Atlantic


Look on the Prestige site for "  HI dome presure cooker  "  in the search , there is a PDf for that model  that  shows various fruits and veg you can do in kilner jars . You must use a new ring every time & test for a full seal once things have cooled down  before claiming success and putting the jars to store .
Light and temp have an effect on storage times and colour the darker and colder you store the better result seems to be  , but not fro freezing in most cases unles your realy clued up .

On pressing the Prestige people they would not countenence  using any other device or method than the one thy give , only do it exactly as in the PDf manual  due to liability etc. & bottulism problems .
 
You'd be foolish to use your own discovery recipes or short cuts  because there are none to safe canning/bottling .
Thinking of adpting a given proven canning recipe or adding a bit extra or some thing neww is also a big NO NO as you might change the canning saftey by  making for all sorts of toxins and introducing bacteria etc etc.

 This model of Pressure cooker has a three set of weights for 105 psi , 110 psi and 115 psi aty sea level  you need to have one for this method .  There is a steam pressure  versus temperature chart available on line some where ..it also has adjustments for altitudes.  so should be ideal to get a copy of .

 
The hot bath method talked about is basically  just a water covered kilner jar of sat on a trivet off the bottom of the pan , then  boiled in a covered pan for a set time per pint of pound /kg et c dependent on the stuff being preserved  . 

Kilner jar have their own website and it offers a few things you can do but it is quite limited and they only offer the boiling pan method or cold syrups .

Website http : // nchfp. uga . edu  is a USA state uni site with what they call an extension facility . The info in the site given has some sensible info and will also kill a few myths and dispell some of the witchcraft associated with bottling and canning . Just be aware what method they are taking about. whit what your reading.

 The Americans  seem to swear by a  books series  called Ball Blue Book that is to do with "  canning " the book is available on Amazon UK  look for the 100th anniversary edition apparently it's really good.
 
Caution the books are cheaper than the 24 or so P&P from the states and I couldnt find any of them 100 th anniversary or not in any of the UK's  on line  booksellers.
 
Maybe one of our country cousins state side could help out if several books are ordered in one go and paid for and sent to one Uk address then use the Uk post to forward after paying import tax etc.
 The book might be on a Kindle or similar for a better price fairly soon.

websites so far

 " grit.com / garden / preserving / safefood - storage . aspx "  is supposed to be a good site though I have not visited it
 
" foodinjars . com "  is also another place I intend to visit.

 I've also had a few hours looking into some of the survival site and off the grid ( no permanant electricity 0  sites in the USA and canada .. all very interesting stuff .

 Now all I need now is a few 100's for the pressure sterilizer from the USA ( unless it is cheaper elsewhere ?? )  I choose this one as it can also then be used to pan sterilize .
Another 150 or so for the books and another couple 100's or so for various jars and some spare rings and then I'll have to wait till the crops and animals  grow .
 Hard life ain't it  ;)
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on November 26, 2011, 10:50:44 pm
FFW has a recipe for Rillons (pork belly) which he stores in a jar with its own fat for months in the cupboard.
no mention in his book about sterilising jars etc?

 Is that really FFW or should it be HFW .

If it should be FFW please tell me more ..   who is it ??
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: YorkshireLass on November 27, 2011, 11:46:30 am
HFW also has a rillons recipe...coincidence?  ;D :P

As for canning etc, I just got this (http://"http://www.amazon.co.uk/Preserving-Food-without-Freezing-Canning/dp/1933392592/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322394292&sr=8-1") book, the brining and lactofermentation look surprisingly easy :) But not for meat...
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Simon O on November 29, 2011, 03:53:32 pm
'All American' 21.5 quart pressure canner available on overstock.com 160.90.
Pressure canning allows a higher temp to be reached than boiling does, needed to kill botulinum spores.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: princesspiggy on December 01, 2011, 10:11:18 pm


 Is that really FFW or should it be HFW .

If it should be FFW please tell me more ..   who is it ??
[/quote]

sorry i meant HFW, i have fat fingers ...lol...too much rillons! we had them last night and roasted veg in with them..so delicious ...but ridiculously fattening. i did extra batch to jar but kids scoffed them too. i did keep the jars of herby lard. i wonder how long i can store that?
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on December 05, 2011, 10:12:41 pm
'All American' 21.5 quart pressure canner available on overstock.com 160.90.
Pressure canning allows a higher temp to be reached than boiling does, needed to kill botulinum spores.

 That's the type pressure cooker I'd like .... no neoprene seals or gaskets to go wrong  . P&P is 's high though.

 I've just found that there is a book " Canning & Preserving For Dummies " available ..it seems cheaper than the Ball Blue canning books


 I've also have a look on the German , French , Swedish and Dutch ebays , I found some interesting old antiques but nothing worthwhile that could be used .
 
I've also tried to contact a Canadian guy I know that lives up by Pegs Bay Nova Scotia  where canning is the norm for all sorts of food for more info but he seems to have disapeared fromm the site I play on.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: yankieGirl on December 05, 2011, 11:00:23 pm
'All American' 21.5 quart pressure canner

Word is, they're the best.  I have a Presto 16 quart pressure canner.  In hindsight I think I should have gone the extra and bought an ALL American.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on December 06, 2011, 09:37:11 pm
'All American' 21.5 quart pressure canner

Word is, they're the best.  I have a Presto 16 quart pressure canner.  In hindsight I think I should have gone the extra and bought an ALL American.

 Hi yankee girl,
 what sort of things do you sterilize/can /bottle up

Can you give any info in chart form as to product type, weight  and time in the canner etc.?
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: yankieGirl on December 06, 2011, 10:06:05 pm
venison.....10 pounds pressure for 75 minutes.  Pint jars
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on December 06, 2011, 11:51:53 pm
Thanks yankeegirl ,
Have you done any veg such as peas , carrots , potatoes , beans or beetroots etc.?

 Have you canned fish , chicken , beef or pork ?
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on December 08, 2011, 12:07:44 am
Yankie girl,

I've managed to answer my own question
 I put   " presto pressure canner &  cooker  manual " into the google search engine and then found a 21 quart canner manual

In is everything I wanted with the exception of how to can potted /paste things such as meat paste or fish paste , salmon paste , liver paste  & bacon paste etc.

if you have any info on these I'd be most pleased if you share it with me.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: yankieGirl on December 08, 2011, 02:05:49 am
Plantoid,

I am new to pressure canning.  Just puchased the canner this past summer and only tried venison.

 I have done cold packing of beets, pickles.  Have canned (hot water bath) tomatoes, salsa.

Glad you found your info.  Good luck!  I'd love to hear your results.
Title: Re: canning/bottling meat
Post by: Plantoid on December 08, 2011, 11:32:48 pm
I've also found the manual for the  " All American Canner "  at   foodforthought.net/assets/files/pressure-canners/pressure-canner-manual.pdf

 There are even more recipes in it and it covers several aspects in great detail such as food safety  & what can and cannot be done in cans or jars. ( not all steel can stuff can be bottled in glass jars )

 Best of all ...... It is for making up sensible sized batches ..... ie 16 servings at a time  so you should be able to run to canning several cans/bottles at a time..