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Author Topic: Breed incorrect??  (Read 1926 times)

PipKelpy

  • Joined Mar 2019
  • North Shropshire
  • Dreamer with docile cattle and sheep!
Breed incorrect??
« on: December 19, 2020, 10:28:02 pm »
Mary has calved! Yay! A live calf is always a good thing.

However!!

This year, apart from Knickers calving in January, Juniper in May, getting them back into calf has been nigh on impossible. Vet scanned several times, all clean, all cycling.

Right, when Mary was ai'd, Knickers was also done, she never held. Total of 5 times, she never held. Juniper was done once, again, not held. Jennifer, another maiden heifer, she didn't hold! The one thing all in common was the same AI bull, an Angus!

Mary calved yesterday, if that is an Angus, I'm the queen of sheba! It's a mini Mary, Hereford, but I asked for Angus due to her being little.

All cattle, related, and the calves born here since 2016 have been black! All Angus.

Has anyone put an Angus on a Hereford X and had a very Hereford looking calf born?

Mary's mum was 3/4 Jersey 1/4 Ayrshire. Knickers mum 3/4 Ayrshire 1/4 Jersey, Knickers and Mary share the same dad. Juniper & Jennifer's mum was 1/2 Jersey 1 /2 Ayrshire, she was half sister to Knickers mum. Juniper & Jennifer have different dads, Jennifer sired by same bull as Mary and Knickers.

Some people might say "what's it matter, put Hereford on passport" but to me it does matter!

 
Halter train the cattle to keep them quiet but watch your back when they come a'bulling! Give them all names even those you plan to eat. Always be calm. Most importantly, invest in wellies with steel toe caps and be prepared for the clever cow who knows where the toe caps end!!

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2020, 11:40:14 pm »
The white face is a fairly dominant trait, and the white stripe on the shoulders and tail ditto.  And Anguses can be black or red. 

Any chance of a pic?

And congratulations on a healthy calf!!  Well done Mary and well done you :)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 04:35:38 pm »
If you had 4 females AI-ed with semen (supposedly) from the same bull and only one held.... than I think there is a high chance that the bull fired blanks OR the straws went off due to storage issues after the first time being used? But it looks to me that the Angus semen is a dud and the first girl was AI-ed with a straw from a different male. I would certainly question this outcome with the AI company... (and you can almost certainly test for paternity).

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 07:05:05 pm »
I had to do DNA test to prove parentage of a calf I registered late.  It cost Ła couple of hundred  :o
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2020, 10:15:21 pm »
If you had 4 females AI-ed with semen (supposedly) from the same bull and only one held.... than I think there is a high chance that the bull fired blanks OR the straws went off due to storage issues after the first time being used? But it looks to me that the Angus semen is a dud and the first girl was AI-ed with a straw from a different male. I would certainly question this outcome with the AI company... (and you can almost certainly test for paternity).


Or was the AI timing out slightly?

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
    • Facebook
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2020, 08:05:36 am »
If you had 4 females AI-ed with semen (supposedly) from the same bull and only one held.... than I think there is a high chance that the bull fired blanks OR the straws went off due to storage issues after the first time being used? But it looks to me that the Angus semen is a dud and the first girl was AI-ed with a straw from a different male. I would certainly question this outcome with the AI company... (and you can almost certainly test for paternity).

rather depends on the accuracy of timing surely! 

and not sure why it matters .... unless you are trying to prove AI company did something wrong ... but do DNA test if you need to know.
Linda

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Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2020, 08:14:23 am »
If you had 4 females AI-ed with semen (supposedly) from the same bull and only one held.... than I think there is a high chance that the bull fired blanks OR the straws went off due to storage issues after the first time being used? But it looks to me that the Angus semen is a dud and the first girl was AI-ed with a straw from a different male. I would certainly question this outcome with the AI company... (and you can almost certainly test for paternity).

rather depends on the accuracy of timing surely! 

and not sure why it matters .... unless you are trying to prove AI company did something wrong ... but do DNA test if you need to know.


I do a lot of AI for my goats, and if it was unsuccessful repeatedly and I was using straws provided by the AI company then yes, I would insist on a semen test prior to using the same bull (or in my case billy) again. It all depends on how many straws are available and who owns/provides them. After all you are paying the AI company for their services.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 08:33:05 am »
Getting the timing right with cows is crucial - and not easy!

We did a lot if AI on the Cumbrian hill farm so I learned a lot.  I never had a problem getting Hillie Jersey in calf (after the first time which was a nightmare and took 4 goes) but we only managed to catch Plenty twice, the other times she had to run with our own Angus bull.

Here, we caught Hillie first time every time, got Flare first time the first time but never managed to get Flare back in calf.  Mind you, she had rather too much condition on her so it could have been that.

Another common problem with cattle is thinking that it's the cow which is jumping on others which is bulling.  It's the one who stands for another to jump on her, who may or may not be jumping on others herself.

The Genus folks here always come as soon as they can after you call and then again - morning and evening usually.  But they can't always get to us by 8am if we call the evening before, so then I might book them preemptively for 21 days later first thing, or for the late afternoon 20 days later.

Then of course not all cows have a 21 day cycle, some are not completely regular...
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 12:57:53 pm »
Have you looked at heat detection aid /monitor . Your calf has so many different breeds in the mix with brown and white dominant ,the calf could look like anything

LouiseG

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Appleby-in-Westmorland
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2020, 08:01:00 pm »
Our very nice Genus Ai man does an examination first to check for the correct timing or accuracy of ovulation etc. and always says we're spot on and 'touch wood' our 3 girls have all taken first time for the last 3 years. So maybe you could ask your Ai guy to check them first?

So many ideas, not enough hours

PipKelpy

  • Joined Mar 2019
  • North Shropshire
  • Dreamer with docile cattle and sheep!
Re: Breed incorrect??
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2020, 03:55:28 pm »
Our very nice Genus Ai man does an examination first to check for the correct timing or accuracy of ovulation etc. and always says we're spot on and 'touch wood' our 3 girls have all taken first time for the last 3 years. So maybe you could ask your Ai guy to check them first?

My regular one did and he even told me what to say to the relief guy when he always seemed to be on! (Knickers didn't like him!) I also told him off. I know my girls and a complete stranger walking upto them in the middle of the shed, they don't like. Especially when he creaks (plastic clothes) and tries to stick his hand up her!! When the vet came to scan she jumped and he asked "Whats up with her?" and when I told him he said you'd have thought that he'd have known better! Lets just say that he knows I'm not keen on him!! But regular guy is brilliant, been coming here for years since we stopped with the bull hire.

Anyways, I apologise if I have caused any arguments, but when you pay for Angus and previous calves have been  almost black with dark red stripes (Junipers offsprings being opposite to her) a white faced little upstart is rather  strange. Even now, the little **** tries it on. Chews her cud (or seems like she is) and when its bed time runs around the field with her mother watching, who I might add is absolutely perfect!!

Mary and Ethel (Effy for when she's good, Effing El for when she's bad!)

I have tried to upload photos, apparently they are too big. I borrowed a Sony smartphone and it had a 21mp camera which this site wont accept. Will have to take crappy ones with my Doro.

Effy is learning. Walks lovely from the field (once caught), understand the words STAND, just scarpers once I am almost at her. But in the morning, her and Mary walk up the drive to the field gate and they both go hurtling across the wet ground leaving my beloved potholes behind!

Finally, my little Doro has not let me down, much! Won't rotate the photos. Effy and Mary!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 03:40:20 pm by PipKelpy »
Halter train the cattle to keep them quiet but watch your back when they come a'bulling! Give them all names even those you plan to eat. Always be calm. Most importantly, invest in wellies with steel toe caps and be prepared for the clever cow who knows where the toe caps end!!

 

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