Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Our new pup - progress  (Read 16988 times)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2012, 02:45:07 am »
How to get a 100% recall?

"A dog that comes is a good dog."

Never ever ever punish a dog - even by a look or a harsh voice - when he comes to you.  Whether you called him or not.  (Yes, even if you'd told him to not come to you.  The recall is much more important than any other command.)  No matter what he did before he came to you or how long you have been calling him.  Coming to you has to always, unequivocally, definitely, certainly, 100% be a good thing to do.

I have always had a 100% recall with all my dogs since the first one (he's the one I learned this from ::)), and that's how I do it.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
    • Facebook
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2012, 07:45:00 am »
Thank you  :thumbsup:

do you reward each time with a treat or some or none?  Murphy reacts well to verbal praise so far.
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

Alistair

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2012, 07:55:00 am »
At his age I'd treat him, recall is important, the emergency stop needs (as at as I know) treats to train, well I've always used them, don't get hung up on to treat or not to treat, just get the basics, my new pup gets a little treat every time she does what I ask, I'll probably wean her off them when she's 6mnths or so and just use them in training sessions

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
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Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2012, 08:13:19 am »
Thank you Alistair  :)  Really sorry about all the daft questions - just want to get it as right as possible. We failed terribly with the dalmatian a few years ago (we had 2 toddlers and I fell pregnant again at the time so it was mainly bad timing/planning/wrong time) so this time I intend to have a happy dog for life  :)
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2012, 08:16:09 am »
Some trainers won't train without treats, some won't use them at all.  Some are more relaxed about it.

The problem with treats is that in the hands of novices it is far too easy to reinforce the wrong behaviour and create problems that weren't there to begin with!

With a dog like Murphy, who seems to be inherently well-mannered and who finds verbal praise very pleasurable, then I wouldn't use food treats for training at all - you don't need to.  "Good boy", a pat on the head, a pull of an ear - these will be praise enough.  You are only wanting him to (a) find that it's nice to do as he's asked and (b) be sure when he gets it right.  So the important thing is that whatever you are using for praise in training, do not do it unless he's earned it. Otherwise it loses its power to convey, "That was right, good dog."

When you find a training class that suits you, be guided by the trainer(s) there - they'll have their own way of doing things and it'll be best to go along with what they do.  If they insist on the use of food treats, they'll teach you how - and how not - to use them.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Alistair

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2012, 08:39:30 am »
Sally, agree with you, I only use them at te very early stage for the important things like recall, the other trick is learning the 'no' command or stop it or leave it or combination of them, and that comes from spotting that the pups going to do something it shouldn't just as they're thinking about doing it and then (well I clap and say command) to divert the behaviour, installing this early makes life easier IMO

The other thing plums is make sure that whatever your doing the rest of the family do, if you use come as recall, then everyone should use the same command, we have a list of commands that we gave to the kids when they where younger so there was consistency.

And need I say it, remember if you allow a puppy to jump up on you now, when its little, it'll jump up on you in 3years when it's big, and your visitors, and it'll be harder to stop, the other is if it chews your fingers and toes now and you don't stop it it'll do it when it's bigger, we have a No teeth on flesh policy, the exception I believe is gun dogs when you teaching soft mouths but I havNt got gun dogs (mores the pity - always, wanted an English pointer) so will defer to others

Alistair

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2012, 08:55:05 am »
Oh, and importantly, play with his feet and ears and face and anywhere you'll want to get access to later to comb out knots, cut nail etc, get him used to it NOW, do it lots, otherwise you'll end up taking him to the vets to get his nails cut!

It's the second biggest Bain of my life, when people bring dogs to me for grooming and They won't let me near them, not that that stops me, I have my methods, generally involving short periods of meditation (me that is not the dog)

(The worst ones are the excitable over friendly types believe it or not)

I offer free puppy grooming one night a week, usually get about 3or4 in, they just get used to being on a table, nails trimmed and brushed and bathed once a month - out of the 3or 4 I get 2 customers with well behaved dogs, they also get a bit of socialisation in the process

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2012, 09:19:12 am »
When we took Archie for puppy training the trainer said that some dogs prefer edible treats whereas others will work just as well if a toy is the treat.
Most puppies in the class were happy to have a toy but not Archie. It was food or nothing. Nearly 12 months on and nothing much has changed. We take a slice of bread with us when we are out. Mind you he only gets the smallest piece at a time. Hardly worth the effort.
As Murphy already has good manners perhaps the toy will work for him.
Sally
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2012, 09:31:03 am »
When you feed pup, you could let him see you put his bowl down and call "COME, COME COME" (I also pat my legs, excitedly). When pup is naturally coming towards you again call "COME, COME, COME". Run away from him again shouting the command and when he catches you, give him a big fuss. Look for natural/play opportunities to reinforce the come command while pup is still very young and before/ alongside more formal training. You can give treats but don't have to ..... gundogs, in my experience, are rarely given treats as it may encourage them to spit out the dummy/bird in anticipation of a food treat.


Try not to be in a situation where you are giving the come command knowing that it may well be ignored due to some "temptation" eg. another dog, chasing something. Pick your times for letting pup free play ... no distractions. You could allow just a few minutes of free play and then back on lead before anything distracts pup. If you can see pup getting too interested and about to chase etc. you can try clapping hands , calling happily and run in the other direction ...... it can break their chain of thought and focus attention back on you. As others have said never scold once pup returns ..... it can be really tempting .... believe me I know.  ::)

Alistair

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 10:17:50 am »
Cute picture hijack - sorry, my border collies morris&julie

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2012, 10:52:33 am »
Oh no !!!! ..... wish you hadn't posted that.  :love:  Been trying to  convince myself for a week that a collie pup won't fit in here. Looked after my neighbours collies last week and the runt of his latest litter is just soooo cute, friendly and lively ..... pulled on my heart strings. So temped to ask if I could buy her, though I know he won't normally sell to pet homes and that is more or less what she would be. I am used to lively, head strong retrievers but know little of collies, except that maybe I would have problems as I have a cat, house rabbit, free range hens, 2 children ..... the list goes on  ::) . Please tell me to resist.

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
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Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2012, 11:00:10 am »
always wanted a border collie! that picture is just gorgeous  :love:

only problem I'm having with recall is Murphy has discovered his nose and how lovely everything smells, he's hard to distract from a nice niff in the garden  ::)
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

Alistair

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2012, 11:11:49 am »
 :love: I'll stop these pictures now, sorry for the hijack, plums I've pm'd that stuff
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 11:13:30 am by Alistair »

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2012, 11:13:21 am »
Oh stop it!!!!!!   ;D

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Our new pup - progress
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2012, 01:38:16 pm »
Personal opinion coming...

As a generalisation, Goldies make great pets and working collies make lousy pets.  There are of course pet collies who love their lives and are well-behaved and nice to have around, and there are Goldies who are the opposite.  But in general, working collies do not adapt readily to being pets - it can be done, but it's a lot of work and they will always be 'high maintenance'.  As a shepherd who works with collies doing what they are born to do, I have to say I am always sad to see a collie in a pet home.  Even if they get to do obedience, flyball, agility, etc, once you've seen them use their brains and their physical prowess to manage sheep, anything else is a poor second best. 

If you are determined to get a collie for a pet, there are always one or two around that won't or can't work sheep - those are suitable for pet homes, of course, although they will still need all same the stimulation and pseudo-work.  Trouble is, you can't tell reliably whether a collie will work sheep until it's past 6 months old - so you wouldn't get such a one as a young pup.

I'll take refuge behind the virtual sofa now, while you all tell me about your devoted, happy, well-adjusted collie pets from working parents!   :D
 :sofa:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

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