[chickenfeed]

imo tattooing is more permanent tags can get removed & replaced a tattoo is there forever (unless you cut the ears off) so for show pigs less chance to cheat i would rather tattoo than tag anyday.

Tattos permanent, don't think so........ i have several bought in GOS all of whom are allegedly tattooed, i cannot read any of the tattoos and have had them tagged even though as a small herd i know them all individually, as least if the powers that be come they are identifiable now by their tags. And nothing would surprise me about what goes on in the pig showing world its the same as in anything that involves winning & prizes!
Mandy 

tattoos are permanent mum has done her goats for over 40 yrs without any probs some times with pigs you need a torch to shine through the ears to see the mark.
i stand by my statement would rather use tattoo than tags anyday

[robert waddell]

we have a lop that is tattooed   clear as anything is her number   the tag well that is lost  but the ear is not ripped     tattoo ink is not as permanent as it used to be     but bill Howe's gets excellent results      notching causes blood loss but only on the day of doing it   then they are alright
tattooing can cause blood loss on a small scale      but notching and tattooing causes them to squeal like mad  and it may be this aspect more than any other why people want to tag    tags can be removed
 
many years ago we had jerseys   and we bred this particularly showy one her only fault was she would milk for 6 weeks then dry up  she was sold through the mart to somebody that was into showing jerseys     the next week in the Scottish farmer there she was winning at east kilbride show and proclaiming it was his breeding   she was tattooed with our herd number  was her number checked    and how often at shows are the numbers checked     as i said before it comes down to the credibility of the breeder   plain and simple

[chickenfeed]

quality of the ink has alot to do with it. when we tattoo we do it like this....using the tattooer we make the mark then apply the ink by rubbing it in the mark that way we make sure all the tattoo is well inked.
 
the other reason for using this method is if the pig moves you have not made a miss mark as you would have if the tattoo marker had been inked so all you have to do is wait a couple of days for it to heal over and start again.
we did 13 pigs sunday they dont all bleed in fact we only had 3 bleeders the squeals are no more than they would if you picked one up and the paste we use is antiseptic so it stops germs the marks are as clear as a bell in fact non of ours are unreadable we have had ours checked at 2 shows this year.

[Fowgill Farm]

  and how often at shows are the numbers checked     as i said before it comes down to the credibility of the breeder   plain and simple

Only been to one show in 4yrs and had ear numbers checked and that was at Newark & Notts two yrs ago and only because MB was there himself.
Credibilty of the breeder is up to that breeder, one point in case been timing of birth notes how many pigs are in the ring with the actual correct birth date on their paperwork?   We've all heard the story of the BPA speaking to a breeder mid jan and her saying sorry can't stop to chat off to wean my januaries!!
mandy 
ps I hate all disfigurement of animals tagging, notching & tattooing, for me tagging is the least barbaric.

[Button End Beasts]

OK, so I have this pedigree registered OSB gilt, only ear tattooed, not notched, no tags. I'd like to breed the occasional litter and want to keep all my options open, so would like to register any piglets that meet the standard. I dont plan on going to any shows. So.....What do I need to do next? I don't much fancy ear notching an 8 month old pig! Yikes! Do I have to ask BPA for permission to double tag? Or is it the OSB society?


Feel like I'm swirling around in treacle over this  

[Fowgill Farm]

Best advice BEB is to go to BPA website look up the breed rep for OSB's and give them a call then you have the definitive answer.
HTH
mandy 

[robert waddell]

the job is as hard as you want to make it
 
has the pig been transferred to your name     are you a fully paid up member of the BPA      it is in your interest and the sows to birth note all piglets    that keeps her records up to date     you only register the good ones   as not all are shinning examples of the breed    and if you do have a full litter or perfects   put the lottery on       the BPA are the one and only one to register with     the osb society are just a group of people promoting there breed
 
Mandy always the question mark is over the January's   our January's were i believe down marked at yorkshire     just because we can obtain a very good growth  on them     and from what we have been told we have raised a few eyebrows in the movers and shakers in the pig world this year

[Button End Beasts]

I am listed as the owner on BPA website and my form. Not a fully paid member, just a pig keeper. It was the BPA who told me only to become a full member when I started breeding. Yep have contacted OSB rep. Will let you know outcome when I hear back.

[Fowgill Farm]

Mandy always the question mark is over the January's   our January's were i believe down marked at yorkshire     just because we can obtain a very good growth  on them     and from what we have been told we have raised a few eyebrows in the movers and shakers in the pig world this year

Some of them in the pig world need a good moving and shaking   glad you're at the forefront!
yes had my march pig's growth questioned a couple of times, but its just we've had good grass growth this year GOS are prolific grazers given half the chance, mine are out digging too putting on muscle and they're well fed good quality pig nuts.
mandy 

[robert waddell]

i did make my feelings known to a few selected breeders at yorkshire  and pointed out the discrepancy's      but that is what you are up against    pigs can have good days and bad days and a different show a different judge the world is your oyster
 
not that i am complaining  if i was you would have read about it in the yorkshire post
to be a virtual unknown from Scotland  and go to the yorkshire and win     that is an achievement in its self
 
anyway i can see the argument from both sides as regards double tagging   and there is no easy solution to placate both sides      somebody did say why not have the tags issued by the bpa  but that is open to even more abuse by the end user

[fairhaven]

  bl**dy defra 

I asked their advice on tagging a few weeks ago & have just now got this response:

Thank you for your email about identification of pigs.

Since April 2007 the law states that no pig may move from a holding unless it has an eartag/tattoo with the herdmark of the holding from which it is being moved.

You can find further information about pig identification at the following link, which includes information on pre-notification of moving pigs off your holding:
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1082261902&type=RESOURCES

I would suggest you contact your local Animal Health branch for assistance in practical matters. You can find their contact details using the postcode search at the following link:

http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/contact-us/postcode.asp

Yours sincerely,

Corinne Brooke

Customer Contact Unit Defra

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)

    

This is ridiculous - 2 people are coming to pick up weaners this weekend, I have no tagger, no tattoo thingy & no cash!!   When I clicked on the link they sent me, it say's that if they are under a year old & going to another holding I can do it on a temp. mark... 

Suggestions please!!   Do I still do the temp. mark (Bearing in mind I can't get a tagger or anything else until I have the cash for the weaners, I can't do much anyway  ) 

[oaklandspigs]

FHF,
 
You may move a pig on a temporary mark under The Pigs Records Identification and Movement Order 2011 - there are three - one for each country England, Wales and Scotland, but they all say the same.
 
Article 7 states
 
Identification of pigs moved off a holding
7. (1) No person may move a pig off a holding unless it has
(a)an ear tag with the letters UK� followed by the herdmark of the holding from which it is being moved; or
(b)a tattoo showing that herdmark (with or without the letters UK�);
applied in accordance with article 6.
 
However Article 8 states
 
8.(1) Article 7 does not apply in relation to a pig less than one year old provided that it is identified with a temporary mark that
(a)either by itself or by reference to a document accompanying the pig during the movement enables the holding from which the pig was last moved to be identified; and
(b)lasts until the pig reaches its destination.
 
This exeption does not apply to pigs going to an abattoir.
 
So you are 100% allowed to move the weaners on a temporary mark - this is usually an animal spray marker and you put a mark such as "blue cross on back" or "red spot on shoulder" or "yellow stripe down back" on the animal, and put that sort of wording on the form.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[fairhaven]

Thank you - this whole tagging & ID thing is a nightmare, made so much worse by defra giving contradictory information.       Before we started set up some friends of ours had told us "The animals are fairly easy to get the hang of - It's defra that takes some working out"  - Now I know just what they meant 

 

[Fowgill Farm]

Farhaven
The trouble is that a lot of the people that work in DEFRA info centres and the new AML centre are not from agricultural backgrounds, they could be entering data about tins of beans or toilet rolls for all they know or care and if you ask questions will generally spout from the manual that they have in front of them, they know nothing of the practicalities of livestock keeping and as ever DEFRA in their wisdom have decided that with farming regs & rules one size fits all set ups! NOT  
Your best advice for tagging info is your BPA breed rep but try to remember these reps are volunteers who give their time freely so they may not answer your e-mails asap, best to ring if you can at a conveneient hour.
Move your weaners on a coloured mark, thats what i do when they're going to somebody to rear for meat and on the AML where it says individually identified tick the yes box and in the comments box write "colour/stripe/spot" whatever you have chosen.
HTH
mandy 

[Beewyched]

Farhaven
The trouble is that a lot of the people that work in DEFRA info centres and the new AML centre are not from agricultural backgrounds, they could be entering data about tins of beans or toilet rolls for all they know or care and if you ask questions will generally spout from the manual that they have in front of them, they know nothing of the practicalities of livestock keeping and as ever DEFRA in their wisdom have decided that with farming regs & rules one size fits all set ups! NOT  
Your best advice for tagging info is your BPA breed rep but try to remember these reps are volunteers who give their time freely so they may not answer your e-mails asap, best to ring if you can at a conveneient hour.
Move your weaners on a coloured mark, thats what i do when they're going to somebody to rear for meat and on the AML where it says individually identified tick the yes box and in the comments box write "colour/stripe/spot" whatever you have chosen.
HTH
mandy 

Exactly as Mandy says up here too - under a year-old - move with a spray mark, put spot/dot/stripe etc in under identification mark, print-off movement paper & give to the person to carry with them when they come to collect them 
Only difference is if they are going directly to a mart or abbattoir - any age pig must be permanently ID.