[FiB]

Got up yesterday to a dead sheep in our field.  Not ours - I co-graze my 15  with a neighbour's 30.  He is comeing to pick it up today (presumably to take it back to is farm for correct disposal).  Out of interest I asked if he would be having a Post Mortem (being new, I have no idea when you would or wouldnt do one) and he said not.  The sheep was apparently healthy the day before and he is a very 'medicinal' farmer so I'm confident they will have had every preventative drench/injection etc possible!  What typically causes a sheep to just keel over and are my flock at risk - should I do anything (other than remain vigelant?).  My Flock are in Heptovac cycle and recently had dectomax and have had worming drench (he did mine when he did his).  Bit of a shock - I did expect dead animals, but not without some signs of illness...

Oh and the whole flock are all nearly yearlings.  All last years ewe lambs.  His are Welsh moutain/Llyn crosses, mine are Beulah and Lleyn.

[shep53]

Quite a few things can cause sudden death but the most common is one of the pneumonia types, you have done all you can for prevention

[FiB]

Thanks Shep, reasuring words. Ive been worrying about it all day.  Spent quite a bit of time in the field today communing with them and watching them eating their hay and they really do all seem fine in their behaviour, so touch wood that this is a one off. 

[feldar]

I am sure over the years my sheep have found multiple reasons to keel over and die! i think sheep find it a challenge to stay alive. I would think of a post mortem if i had more than one die and if i suspected an outbreak of disease occuring.
But as they say when you have livestock you have deadstock too.
We had pms done one year when we had 4 lovely show rams lambs keel over very quickly over a period of 10 days.We suspected White muscle disease so our vet sent samples to the VLA we had every test done you could think of, cost us a packet  result...... inconclusive!  they couldn't pinpoint what could have caused it so i can quite understand why people don't pursue sudden deaths

[plumseverywhere]

we had one just keel over and die too - its horrible because you just don't know why.  It was one owned by the 'sheep club' that used our land and I can only assume she was overburdoned with worms as they all had runny bums until that point where I decided to panacur the lot of them as I was fed up with them being left to it! 
from what you have said though this sheep's owner was responsible enough to make sure they were well looked after so unlikely to be the same.

[FiB]

I am sure over the years my sheep have found multiple reasons to keel over and die! i think sheep find it a challenge to stay alive.

lol (sorry, I know I shouldnt).

Who would think it!!  They seem such simple creatures- they eat, they sleep, some like a bit of a head stroke  (thats why I love em!!).  a couple of people said something similar to me before I got mine but I didnt believe them!!

[daddymatty82]

sheep really do only have one aim in life  and that is to die. wheres theres livestock theres deadstock

[SallyintNorth]

The Exmoor saying is, "A sheep's only got two hobbies.  What it can eat and what it can die of."

The only thing I would add to the other comments is that a pregnant ewe can collapse and die quite quickly from metabolic disturbances.

If pregnant sheep are checked several times a day you will probably catch them collapsed and hopefully save them with injecting calcium.  If they are checked only once a day then you may just find a dead ewe.

Our vet's 'Guide to Staggers' is reproduced here:
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=12927.msg136877#msg136877

[Remy]

Sheep definitely can just drop dead!  I've lost an adult ewe with no apparent sign of anything wrong with it.  I watch mine like hawks for signs of flystrike in the fly season which is quite prevalent here and this ewe was grazing perfectly normally one day, lying dead in the field the next.  I noticed she was scouring when I went to move the body but the previous day there had been no sign of it (I am always watching for scours, not least because it attracts more flies).  She was a really good mum too, had triplet lambs nearly three months old and luckily they were big enough to thrive on the good grazing.

I also lost a lamb to flystrike, I usually notice early signs of it but this little lamb hadn't shown anything until it was too late 

[shrekfeet]

Sheep are predated animals. Preditors often take the weakest animal. It is therefore evolution that has resulted in a predated animal not showing signs of illness until the very last minute. Often once the symptoms are accute they are too late to treat. Sheep are no more inclinded to die than other livestock that are not properly cared for

[FiB]

... Neighbour moved his flock off and then on Friday I was surprised by a dead sheep again (this time it was ours).   Decided to get a PM as I needed to know - it not showing any symptoms that morning.  Verdict was pneumonia most likely caused by pasteurella ( something like that..) - I am so cross - when I got them I was advised to heptovac but the farm shop suggested covexin 8 as it was similar but covered more diseases......  that may be true, but it DOESNT cover the common pasteurela. 

Vet also said she though the gut contents seemed watery so has sent sample off for worm tests (they were wormed in November with Albex (neighbour did them with his)).  My flock has also not stopped shedding following detomax (followed neighbours advice rather than calling vet initially) and the vet confirmed they were biting not sucking lice.  So yesterday saw poor sheep given  Spot on (for biting lice), Alamycin, for potential pneumonia, and heptovac P injections.   Next week will posibly have to re worm and dag (bums not very mucky, so hoped to wait until shearing, but think Id better do it now).

Very expensive and sad weekend.  Sheep are pretty tricky arent they.  Funny thing is - its my Beulah that are looking worse (and the dead one was Beulah) - The Lleyn and crosses are all seeming much more robust.  Anyone know anything about Beulah, whether they are suceptable to anything more than other breeds???  They are a hill breed and were born just up the road from us so thought they'd do well here.  Trying to work up a calander of tasks and routine medecines.  Thanks all

[Bramblecot]

Sorry to read of your bad news.
It may have been expensive, but at least you now know what the problem was and can work towards preventing a recurrence.  Re the vaccine - it is very frustrating to be sold something and then find it does not do the job you wanted it to do.  I have no confidence in most of the staff at any of our local farm shops, some of them are very pushy on certain brands and others don't have a clue.  Read as much as you can, and trust your own judgement.

[SallyintNorth]

Sorry you've lost one, FiB 

It's always hard to pinpoint an exact cause with sheep.  Are they pregnant?  If so, the stress of being moved can cause them to go down with hypocalcaemia / twin lamb disease type metabolic disruptions.

If she did die of pasteurella, I'd suggest there was some other underlying problem; a healthy adult sheep in reasonable weather conditons shouldn't really be succumbing to pasteurella.

I hope you won't mind me mentioning a couple of things you may not know, for another time.

I have been told that it is unwise to use pour-ons or other externally-applied meds at the same time as giving any injections, because the jab would make a hole in the skin through which the pour-on could get into the system more rapidly and by a different route than it is meant to. 

I was not sure whether you meant you had treated the whole flock with Alamycin as a precaution?  Alamycin being an antibiotic, I am surprised at a vet giving you this advice unless there is clearly a very active contagious infection.  And I am almost certain that antibiotics would interfere with the vaccine, so would not normally be given alongside a vaccination.   It would not normally arise, as antiobiotics generally mean that the animal is sick, and one would not normally be  vaccinating any animal which is suspected of being other than completely healthy because the vaccines contain mild versions of the diseases they protect against and a sick sheep might become ill as a result of the vaccination.

Please don't feel I'm being critical; on the contrary, you are clearly trying your best to give your sheep the very best of care and attention, so I thought you would want to know some things that I have picked up on my journey. 

Did the vet talk about fluke at all?  The Albex your neighbour used would have killed adult flukes and eggs, but any immature flukes that might have been present need hitting again - repeating the dose about 6 weeks later is the usual regime. 

Have you been caking your girls through the winter?  It sounds like you are having much the same first winter with your hoggs that we had with ours on the moorland farm; they got flukey, they got badly affected by sucking lice... We learned that on our hill ground, ewe lambs need support through their first winter, so after that we caked them - just 1/2lb per head per day - through their first winter, and we didn't have the same problems after that.

I do hope your remaining girls respond to the treatments

Best of luck,
Sally x

[FiB]

Not only dont mind Sally - very greatful!!!  Yes I was surprised that so much medication could be administered together - I did specifically ask that.  I think the antibiotic was prescribed for whole flock as she probably assumed that the others were at serious risk (given the positve ID of Pasteurelosis (must try and learn spelling of that!) and it being the second death in 2/3 weeks).  The spot on was just aplied to the skin on a small area of the midline at the shoulder - away from the 2 injections (antibiotic in muscle on rump, and heptovac through skin pinch at shoulder)  - it was a lot to rember but I wrote it all down, so know I followed intructions OK!!

 I watched the Post Mortem which was very informative (and I was surprised I was able to) and was glad to know there was no indications of liver fluke (we are in a fluky area so I will need to plan a schedule for that and can see that I should have re wormed them ) and to have a positive ID of Pneumonia.  She deduced the cause (pasteurella) based on the medications thay had previously had, and also the lack of certain other indicators (for example the all other internal organs were fine)

They are just coming up to 1 year (not in lamb) and went onto pretty rich pasture when they arrived in Sept, but that was pretty well gone by Novemebr when I started giving hay.  Have just started them on cake and think I have very likely not beein giving enough, so will start cake earlier next year.  Thanks for all advice - I'm starting to build up a picture of diseases and prevetions/treatments.  Does flip your view though - I was half expecting another dead one today.  Thanks goodness not, but I do feel the need to go and look at them hourly!!  Off to look now! 

[shep53]

Sorry for the loss. Few points you will need to give a second heptavac p + in the next 4-6 wks then annually . I would never use a wormer only a flukicide  in autumn/winter as immature flukes are the problem and wormers don't kill them also they say not to use on pregnant sheep at the increased fluke dose . In most cases of wool loss over the winter assume lice and treat with a pour on, DECTOMAX is for scab and worms. My ewe lambs start on 300gms of concs in nov until the grass comes in april, We all learn by experiance