NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Dreaded council visit  (Read 3332 times)

Bev123

  • Joined Jun 2017
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2017, 10:54:48 pm »
The shelters are not movable apart for the one 12x16 summer house which has been taken down and moved 3 times. All have been up between 4-6 years. Caravan been there 41/2 years and lorry at least 5 maybe 6. They must have viewed Google Earth as they thought lorry was a static until they visited. X

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2017, 08:47:43 am »
If you can see them that far back on google earth then you are ok.
Do not think you have any real  problems

The caravan and horse box would need 10 years to be exempt, unmovable field shelters need 4years to be exempt
The horse box and caravan should be covered by agricultural use imo  (REF COURT CASE)
Whatever happens do not let them take you down the retrospective planning route, they call the shots then

PS
If it was me i would send them google earth dated photos with shelters up x years
Send that court article re caravan.
Explain in your opinion its agricultural use, and you would be happy for a planning inspector to decide
Then leave it to them to decide next move.

If you do the above and they continue enforcement action ,you will have a good case to claim costs against them


« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 02:47:02 pm by mart6 »

Bev123

  • Joined Jun 2017
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2017, 01:58:53 am »
Well it's been a while since the visit. Hope you are well.
The lady that did the inspection,I have been since informed is an enforcement office not just general planning officer. After 6 weeks I hadn't heard anything an on several occasions had said to friends/fam shall I call? but was talked out of it. Only to get a further letter stating I hadn't replied to her letter sent 6 was previously so further action would be taken. Was mortified. Called straight away as I had noticed that the copy of the original letter sent was to the wrong address so had another 6 weeks to reply. I have got to do cert of lawfulness for buildings that have been on site 4 years plus.
Even though the miniatures only graze it's insisted that I get change of use to equestrian because of the shelters.
One officer said it was around £250 for this form (same office)
Have called into see the duty planning officer to assist in the filling in of forms as interpretation of some questions are quiet ambiguous an there's no way I can pay to resubmit time and time again.
It is recommended that I put in a general planning application for the poultry coops and keep either caravan OR horse box.
No mention of the wheelbarrow lol.
I've had real problems getting historic pics from google maps but do have many photos of the horses grazing 10 years plus
I am allowed to grow and retain the 50 year old cherry trees. I've found the date out of my reg small holding may 2011 which benefits my case for cert of lawfulness for chicken shed etc. Well hopefully! And found original receipts for their purchase.
Tried to submit on line but stumbled at first hurdle as field doesn't have post code. However one officer said they scan application in so only need one copy however duty planner said original plus 3. So am sending original plus 3 as not getting caught out on a technicality!
Apparently the cert of law is £385 plus another £385 for change of use plus £385 to cover the 74m2 shelters building coops. (£385 for each 0.1 hectare m2)
The planning application (general) is £385 plus £385 for each 0.1m2 of floor space including the fenced runs =159m2 which includes proposed new areas for additional poultry as my business is expanding. So costs in the region of £2310!! So be while before I see any profit from my business.
Can see why people dislike council visits lol.
Plans n cert of lawfulness going in next week. So wish me luck. I hope it all goes through ok or will have to put planning in for things not deemed required on another planning application.
Sometimes wonder if that lady in the paper who advertised her land for sale to travellers had the right idea. Lol. Makes you want to give up, it really does.
Cheers Bev x



mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2017, 11:03:58 pm »
Shame you said anything especially the address bit
If they served a enforcement notice to wrong address ....lol
Would not of done any of that myself could save yourself some money

You dont have to apply for anything put the onus on them i really doubt a planning inspector would see everything their way, you can graze horses and provide movable field shelters without planning permission
Post link to google maps of site ,i can get photos for you

You should of waited to see if they served a enforcement notice
now they have seen some of your evidence its even more doubtful

Odds on if they had served a enforcement notice they make a total mess of the wording and facts
and it would get thrown out anyway
Based on the things they have backed down on they are on ify ground anyway


Go read this its a bit long but it shows what some councils say is not always correct
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19952
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:55:08 am by mart6 »

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2018, 10:33:56 am »
Any news how things went?

Bev123

  • Joined Jun 2017
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2018, 07:39:15 pm »
Well had another letter mid December 2017 from the council saying my application for certificate of lawfulness would be rejected and said to either take everything down or apply for full planning. I called them back on receipt of the letter and spoke to the planning department. They suggested a meeting with the planning inspector and said they would pass my details on and contact me. I've left two answer phone messages and an email last week asking for details of who I need to speak to to contact them myself but as yet no reply to answer messages or email.
Have since found out the last paddock I bought off Severn Trent is classed as brownfield so need to do some research on that to see if I can put my coops on that instead. In mean time had stray dog walker let their dog worry my horses an kill 2 geese after ripping the builders netting and tarp off used to screen due to recent breakout of bird flu. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. It's hard enough trying to make a go of it without all this hassle   
Think I need to get some legal advice?
Thanks for asking. This has made me feel very alone and vulnerable an nice to know that someone is interested. Much appreciated x

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2018, 09:00:52 pm »
Sorry to hear about your loss
Council claiming they will turn down lawfull development certificate  means nothing
When they ring say you will appeal if they do.
Intresting that they have not took any enforcement action
If you have photo proof going back years you would probably win a appeal

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2018, 09:22:00 pm »
I think you would find it useful to talk to a proper planning professional. The council are obviously giving you the run around. As Mart6 says  - just saying they would turn down your application is irrelevant. Only an official notification following a written application for a certificate of lawfulness carries any validity.
The planning professional I use costs £65/hour and is worth every penny. She has an extensive knowledge of planning law and points out to the council matters of law which they choose to ignore for their own twisted reasons. She has won a planning appeal for us, handled an appeal against refusal for permitted development (still pending) and also launched an appeal against an enforcement order. Planning now is so complicated  that you really need someone handling it that knows what they are doing. The very last people you want to ask for any sort of advice is anyone who works for the council.


I chose my planner off the internet because she was local, but I also looked up her history. She had originally worked in the planning department of the local council, so in a way was a poacher turned gamekeeper. Anyone can set themselves up as a planning professional and there are some pretty useless people out there. So make sure you choose someone with the right qualifications. You can look up local planning decisions on the internet and see what names come up as handling successful applications, or appeals.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Mad Goatwoman of Madeley

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2018, 11:45:33 pm »

Thanks for asking. This has made me feel very alone and vulnerable an nice to know that someone is interested. Much appreciated x


Please don’t feel alone. TAS is one big supportive family with lots of experience. I know nothing about planning law but hope it all goes well for you.

Bev123

  • Joined Jun 2017
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2018, 05:22:53 am »
Thanks for your replies.

Will be researching to find legal help as even though I haven't had a reply back yet can't see this just going away. Be a month now since last spoke, well left answer phone messages as no one currently at their desks, so post as soon as hear anything
Thank you x

Bev123

  • Joined Jun 2017
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 01:02:28 pm »
Well for saying this was an urgent matter that needed sorting. I've had no contact with council since December. I've left 2 answer phone messages and emailed them an still no reply. Perhaps no news is good news?
Leaving the ball in their court now, if they can't be bothered to return my calls/email I don't see why I should keep trying.
Will wait for next letter x

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 05:55:48 pm »
Intresting
If you have proof shelters have been up more than four years they have no chance
Get evidence and have it on hand if they visit again.If they do  ask how many years they need to be up to become exempt against enforcement action ?
And watch expression on face ... lol
Get the feeling they know you are aware ...lol
Keep us posted   ;)
Which council is it ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:13:36 pm by mart6 »

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Dreaded council visit
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2018, 07:21:46 pm »
Just to let you know that we have won our appeal against the council's refusal to admit we were entitled to permitted development to convert an agricultural building to a dwelling. 3 times we applied and 3 times they turned us down on spurious excuses. So in the end we appealed and the Planning Inspector agreed with us and politely pointed out that the planners were wrong with their reasoning.


So - hopefully Bev123 this will encourage you not to give up.
As I've said, it's well worth getting a proper planning professional in. It cost us £600 (+ planning fees) for ours to put in our appeal and it was worth every penny. :thumbsup:
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

 

the dreaded planning permission

Started by little farmer

Replies: 10
Views: 2736
Last post August 17, 2013, 09:01:48 pm
by mowhaugh
Caravan upgraded to a Double Unit NOW COUNCIL SAYS PULL IT DOWN

Started by Fruit of gods

Replies: 32
Views: 8760
Last post February 13, 2011, 05:59:21 pm
by Pebbles
Small holding in the Midlands we can visit

Started by Clickhappy

Replies: 14
Views: 3262
Last post June 30, 2015, 08:06:40 pm
by Quirkygirl
HI from couple moving to the UK looking for amazing people to visit/worktrade

Started by tinelhoest

Replies: 17
Views: 3598
Last post March 04, 2015, 11:09:47 pm
by Rosy_apple

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Assist Animal Care Services Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Little Peckers

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2018. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS