Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Killing humanely  (Read 22557 times)

Stereo

  • Joined Aug 2012
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2015, 12:04:44 pm »

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2015, 12:08:23 pm »
A single shot handgun for despatching wounded deer etc would require a FAC, might be that?

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 12:09:45 pm »
We use a full power air pistol for the small or young chickens and a full power air rifle for larger or older. We have had instances were we have only stunned and not killed (no convulsions, just goes limp). This has needed a second shot. Problem is the brain is only small and easily missed. The problem would be exactly the same with a captive bolt I think. We already had the air weapons for vermin control.


Previously we used a wall mounted dispatcher, but read that it doesn't kill immediately. I have to say we have always had the same convulsions immediately as we now get with the air weapons, so not sure there is anything wrong with a wall mounted dispatcher SET CORRECTLY of course and perhaps that's the reason why it has gone out of favour? Is it that sometimes they aren't set correctly? It depends on the size of the neck and needs fine adjustment.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 12:36:43 pm »
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 01:21:11 pm »
225

it takes 9mm blanks and strangely enough when I spoke to the guy about them prior to purchase he said they are being used on water buffalo in the UK.

You may well know the place that uses it? I don't imagine there are many of them.  ;D

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 03:20:42 pm »
Previously we used a wall mounted dispatcher, but read that it doesn't kill immediately. I have to say we have always had the same convulsions immediately as we now get with the air weapons, so not sure there is anything wrong with a wall mounted dispatcher SET CORRECTLY of course and perhaps that's the reason why it has gone out of favour? Is it that sometimes they aren't set correctly? It depends on the size of the neck and needs fine adjustment.

My own feeling is that there has been confusion about devices which crush the neck and those which disclocate and snap the cord, and both are now tarred with the same brush.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2015, 03:49:43 pm »
A lot of them are similar I think Sally.

a wall mounted dispatcher that just holds the neck so the dislocation can be done by stretching the birds neck is a good aid.

The type that kill the bird by pushing the lever down on its neck are a crush type and should not be used.

Dislocation should always take place by stretching the neck.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2015, 03:55:34 pm »
The type that kill the bird by pushing the lever down on its neck are a crush type and should not be used.

Dislocation should always take place by stretching the neck.

The type I have used do have a lever but do not crush.  The way the jaws come together, the one side gets between two vertebrae and dislocates, does not crush.  This is where I think the confusion has arisen.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2015, 04:00:38 pm »
how do you position it between two vertebrae? which one do you use?

If the dislocation is not caused by the physical stretching of the neck then it's a crush and not a humane method according to the HSA

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, I don't strictly adhere to all the recommendations etc myself, just trying to highlight the topic  :innocent:

The HSA also say that decapitation is not a recommended method as brain activity can be present for up to 30 seconds afterwards...

I can't say I agree with that one, especially if the bird is stunned first, really how much quicker and deader can you kill something then by instantaneously removing its head  :innocent:
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 04:14:40 pm by Clansman »

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2015, 04:29:37 pm »
If you use the diagram from the HSA site, you can see the brain is pretty much between the eyes and the ears, if using an bullet/pellet shoot directly down through the centre of the head between the eye and ear to hit the brain.

I use .22 pellet now after having a few .177 pellets passed straight through the head

« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 04:31:21 pm by Clansman »

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2015, 08:38:01 pm »
225

it takes 9mm blanks and strangely enough when I spoke to the guy about them prior to purchase he said they are being used on water buffalo in the UK.

You may well know the place that uses it? I don't imagine there are many of them.  ;D
Yea the guy I use used bolt guns, but apparently under new legislation water buffalo need a special bolt gun for the front of the head, as their skull is really thick.
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2015, 11:45:46 am »
Gail Damerow (Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens) suggests shooting a .22 round into the rear of the head from just above the eyes is the best method of despatch. That ties in with the diagram Clansman helpfully posted. Seems my point of aim has been wrong!

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2015, 12:11:06 pm »
Captive bolt stunners don't require a firearm certificate, anyone over 18 can buy and use one.

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. I wonder how I got my wires crossed then.

Think i've found the cause of your crossed wires.  ;D

They used to be Section 1 FAC, they were declassified in 1998  :thumbsup:

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2015, 12:29:36 pm »
225

it takes 9mm blanks and strangely enough when I spoke to the guy about them prior to purchase he said they are being used on water buffalo in the UK.

You may well know the place that uses it? I don't imagine there are many of them.  ;D
Yea the guy I use used bolt guns, but apparently under new legislation water buffalo need a special bolt gun for the front of the head, as their skull is really thick.

Funnily enough I was on the phone to Mike at Calton Moor today ordering more blanks for mine so I asked him about this.

They now have a larger powered 9mm blank especially for water buffalo, big bulls etc so these are still legal to use on water buffalo as long as the higher powered cartridge is used.

The ones I use for pigs are the Red type, they will do anything up to cattle and horses, the Yellow type are for the heavy stuff, big bulls, water buffalo etc

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Killing humanely
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2015, 12:31:25 pm »
225

it takes 9mm blanks and strangely enough when I spoke to the guy about them prior to purchase he said they are being used on water buffalo in the UK.

You may well know the place that uses it? I don't imagine there are many of them.  ;D
Yea the guy I use used bolt guns, but apparently under new legislation water buffalo need a special bolt gun for the front of the head, as their skull is really thick.
Interesting..... How much would it cost though?

Funnily enough I was on the phone to Mike at Calton Moor today ordering more blanks for mine so I asked him about this.

They now have a larger powered 9mm blank especially for water buffalo, big bulls etc so these are still legal to use on water buffalo as long as the higher powered cartridge is used.

The ones I use for pigs are the Red type, they will do anything up to cattle and horses, the Yellow type are for the heavy stuff, big bulls, water buffalo etc
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

 

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