[Alistair]

Just ordered Derek's book after your recommendation 

Cheers sally

A collies idea of tidy isn't necessarily the same as yours

[in the hills]

SITN - thank you so much for spending time on that brill post.


Beginning to get the crate idea. I have never looked into these ..... never really needed to. I suppose most of the dogs I grew up with were working dogs and in kennels. Only had my current lad from a pup in the house and he never had one accident or chewed in the house. Amazing really ..... he is intense and on the go but very clever. Get the "have your own safe place" ..... you explain that really well. Think my lad has some obsessive traits and can't leave my side. Eyes always on me, a shadow and if outside without me will run around the house looking for me. Golden when I leave him though ..... she's not here so I'll just lie motionless until she returns. Perhaps he needed a crate  .


Will get those books and carry on researching and asking all I can. The title "Problem dog" concerns me a little   though.


My Collie training neighbour was telling me about thinking ahead of them and using a stick and his body as barriers and guides when training. Also not too much too early ...... babies for a long time he reckons and too much pressure unfair on them and will spoil them in the long run.


My pet hate is ..... can my dog say hello to yours. On leads my answer is now a friendly "no".  Find dogs on leads saying hello can quickly become agitated and aggressive. My dogs hello can be a bit too friendly and not welcomed by all dogs and the dogs saying hello have often not been friendly at all. 

[colliewoman]

SITN - thank you so much for spending time on that brill post.


Beginning to get the crate idea. I have never looked into these ..... never really needed to. I suppose most of the dogs I grew up with were working dogs and in kennels. Only had my current lad from a pup in the house and he never had one accident or chewed in the house. Amazing really ..... he is intense and on the go but very clever. Get the "have your own safe place" ..... you explain that really well. Think my lad has some obsessive traits and can't leave my side. Eyes always on me, a shadow and if outside without me will run around the house looking for me. Golden when I leave him though ..... she's not here so I'll just lie motionless until she returns. Perhaps he needed a crate  .


Will get those books and carry on researching and asking all I can. The title "Problem dog" concerns me a little   though.


My Collie training neighbour was telling me about thinking ahead of them and using a stick and his body as barriers and guides when training. Also not too much too early ...... babies for a long time he reckons and too much pressure unfair on them and will spoil them in the long run.


My pet hate is ..... can my dog say hello to yours. On leads my answer is now a friendly "no".  Find dogs on leads saying hello can quickly become agitated and aggressive. My dogs hello can be a bit too friendly and not welcomed by all dogs and the dogs saying hello have often not been friendly at all. 

Be thankful they ask you, round here it is customary to let your loose dog rush up to a leashed dog whilst repeating the mantra 'it's ok he's perfectly friendly' 




One day I am going to be rich.
I am going to write the 'idiot dog owner to English translation guide'


'It's ok he's perfectly friendly' ACTUALLY means ''he's a rude beast with no doggy manners who I have absolutely no control over and bugger all recall'




'he's been pulling on the lead' means 'he's got kennel cough, and now so have yours'.




'oh he's never done that before' means ''well actually he has but I cannot possibly admit to myself that my dog might have an issue with biting/fighting/chasing sheep so will do nothing about it.'




When it's finished I might advertise it

[in the hills]

 

[SteveHants]

Be thankful they ask you, round here it is customary to let your loose dog rush up to a leashed dog whilst repeating the mantra 'it's ok he's perfectly friendly' 

To which I always reply - 'mine isn't, thats why he is on a lead'.

[jacoblambuk]

my collie has his place under a sideboard at the back door he has went there since he was a pup the entrance to it is about 8 inch then 1 ft once inside the kids know not to bother him there but he is fine with them he works sheep about once a month but he goes with me morning and night to check the stock but he is round the house all the other time

[tazbabe]

i have had a collie by my side my whole life since my mum got me my first when i was 12.

they are very adaptable, but do need some kind of job to do, it's their nature. my current girl came from a rescue centre 6 yrs ago, no idea her background, but she helps me outside by instinct. she lives in the house along with the rest of our dog gang (7 atm, 2 visitors)

i would agree strongly with the bolt hole comment, and also remember that they can be very much one man dogs, i have had one that would only responds to me, and would stay in her bolt hole if i was out the house. current girl has a stong jealous streak, but not a problem as we are aware and manage her accordingly.

all dogs have various needs in terms of handling and training, and regardless of breed should be treated individualy.

let the dog choose you. even if it turns out to be a more difficult dog, it will respond because it knows you are the right companion for it.

[Alistair]

My copy of talking sheepdogs has arrived

It's a fantastic book, cheers SITN, money well spent 

[in the hills]

Need some collie help already  .


Our hens free range so little Meg has seen them already. So far I keep her on her lead outside but soon will let her off. I know how I would teach a gundog to leave them alone but what's the best approach with a collie. If she stalks them .... do I allow her to do so, do I stop her, etc. Want to work with her instincts and not do anything in the early days to spoil her. 


She is already stalking our Flattie and anything that moves in the house. Amazing.

[Mammyshaz]

My advice would be, it doesn't matter what the breed of dog, it must learn how you want it to act around that situation. In my limited experience, working breed dogs will quickly learn to switch to working mode for jobs  you give them, or  relax mode for life outside of work, so to speak.

[jaykay]

I taught Skye that he was allowed to sit or lie and watch chooks, ducks and geese, but not chase. If he showed even the hint of getting up, I would roar at him and throw the metal bit of the choke chain at him. I'm such a bad shot it rarely if ever hit him, but the noise and surprise of it landing nearby emphasised the 'awfulness' of even thinking about chasing chooks.

He is rock solid around any animals. He will obsess about chooks to the point of sitting with his head in the pophole when one is laying    but he never, ever chases them.

It hasn't hurt his shepherding instinct at all. In fact, he was a pet hillwalking dog for years before he was a proper sheepdog. In those days he wasn't even allowed to look at sheep on the hill, but had to come to heel when he so much as smelled one - taught as for the chooks. He was perfect at doing so. But when we came here and he was allowed to herd sheep - he undid all those years of learning in a heartbeat and became a reasonable sheepdog - not bad at 8 

[in the hills]

Thanks both.


So if she actually stalks or chases I can intervene as I normally would. Just wasn't sure if it would put her off herding. Dad had to try to put right a lot of faults in gundogs he trained that were put there by their owners .... often being too hard or chastising behaviour that at a young age should have actually been encouraged ..... am aware that I maybe one of those owners when it comes to collies  .

[size=78%] Neighbour is finding me out all his training books but guessing that these books will assume that the dog is being trained and then put back in a kennel/barn so we are going to have to deal with some different situations because Meg has to be a bit of everything/see everything. Not easy for her.[/size]

[jaykay]

In my experience herding is in their bones so much, if they're from good working stock, that nothing puts them off it.

Even my hubby's comparatively dim German Shepherd could distinguish between when he was a pet house dog and when he was a fierce working dog. Border collies have no problems switching between what's required in their different roles. In fact, I think it's good for them to do lots of different things, keeps that Ferrari brain active.

[SallyintNorth]

One thing about collies is, they're all different!

Before I farmed and had my own sheep and collies to work them, I used to train my companion dogs exactly as jaykay describes.  My dogs knew it was naughty to look at sheep and would come a-running back to me if they so much as glimpsed one.

But I have to say, I wouldn't do it that way now with one I want to work sheep, especially a bitch. 

Firstly, ith, I would not stop her stalking anything she wants to stalk.  She's honing her skills, and it would be hard for her to know why sometimes stalking is good and sometimes bad.  Chances are, if she obsesses with the chooks and stalks them, she probably won't take it to the next step and rush at them, so then there isn't a problem.  (Dot still stalks our chooks at 5 years old; she's never harmed a feather.)

If she does rush at them, do not shout at or throw anything at her, but threaten the ground between her and the chooks.  So that she would have to leave a place where no-one is shouting at her or threatening her to move into a place where both of those things are happening.  99.99% of the time, possibly more, they won't do it.

I do think that working collies are different to other working dogs.  They alone work with a large number of sentient, lively and usually fit and active other animals, whom the collie must not hurt.  The relationship between dog and handler is different - very different - to that with a dog you are doing obedience, or agility, or even field trials, with.  You are very much a partnership; sometimes you will instruct the dog but for the most part your input is guidance and advice - making suggestions rather than commanding a specific action.  Most of your training focusses on building patterns of behaviour in the dog where it generally finds it more pleasant and rewarding to follow your advice than to ignore it.  (And to a working collie, 'reward' means controlling sheep.  'Good dog' just doesn't compare to holding sheep in your thrawl  )

And let me say this, too - starting with working collies as an adult, ith, you, like me, will never know as much about how sheep behave as that pup does already.  So a partnership you will need to be - when it comes to real work, Meg will often know exactly what to do, and have done it, before you even realise a sheep was about to break 


Before I say more, however, can I suggest you get your neighbour's take on this?  Since you will be getting training from him, even if his approach is very different to mine or any of your other TAS advisors, you would be best to go along with his approach or you and the dog will soon become confused!  As with training any dog, consistency matters more than almost anything else.

[jaykay]

Of course every dog is different. But as a breed I think they're bright enough to distinguish between not being allowed to stalk chooks and being allowed to do it with sheep.