[RUSTYME]

The thing this is all about is , as always , money !
How do they get what they want ?
 Fear .
Talk of "major blackouts if we don't build nuclear power stations" , scare the crap out of the average person and 'they' get their way . More billions for the elite to dish out between themselves , oh and more fuel for nuclear weapons as a bonus .
The nuclear industry is totally corrupt , a complete fraud . Remember the shite they came out with to sell the whole nuclear idea , electricity so cheap it wouldn't be worth charging us for it ! Crap !
The by product was weapons grade waste and that was what they wanted .
Will 'they' listen to what the people say ? They don't with anyting else so why should they on this subject .
The only way to stop these bastards is pull the rug from under them . But , sad as it is ,  very few have the back bone to go that route .
The indoctrination of the masses is very affective and anyone who dares stand against the corrupt elite , are vilified as conspiracy theorists and the mob attack . Just take a look at what the dwp have done to the disabled , the unemployed etc . Even the people vilify and attack , in general .
It is the way of the system . A corrupt edifice built by a corrupt elite , to serve their own insidiuos needs .
The only way to stop them is remove them . They will not capitulate , they will not give an inch .  How do they get away with it ? We let them !
We even carry out their corrupt commands . Without us , they couldn't survive , and until the masses come to this realization , the elite will continue to do as they wish ,virtually unhindered .
Leave a bad apple in with the good ones  , and they will go bad too .
  The only way to stop the rot , is cut it out !

[deepinthewoods]

whilst taking out the elite is one thing. and would probably only lead to a new set of elite anyway. the strength on the individual is in its own actions, lead by example . im not religious but a biblical quote that sticks in my mind is 'the kingdom of heaven is within each one' . removing demand removes profit. spend money away from big corps, keep your pounds within a community group.
 
the big one, is simple, grow your own fuel and food. no petrol miles, no waste.no reliance on the profit mongers. its not easy tho, as russ will (and does) tell.
 
i know, here, that if the lights went out we'd manage, just. but mainly only because i have a close group of friends who between us have the skills necessary to manage most things. theres actually lots of groups of people who are preparing for just this eventuality. building communication networks will be important. i reckon the old ham radio's a good one.
 
and the best thing is, if it doesnt go tits up, if the s doesnt htf youve not lost, youve only gained, your independence.  i consider myself to be a 'sovereign human' as is everyone. its worth remembering that when your being told what to do all the time.
 
 
tbh, the issue of nuclear energy is a red rag to a bull to me, how can it possibly be, that we use the most destructive element on the planet so recklessly. a bit of research into the history of uranium i would consider a pre-requisite to anyone wishing to understand why we are here, now. and it is very very scary.

[RUSTYME]

Yes mate , it is hard to live as i do . Half the problem for me is due to the smash , albeit 30 years ago now , and trying to be as near self reliant as possible .
On an individual basis i can do my thing and they will leave me alone , but only to a point .
They want , need total control , and are now making their move to achieve this goal .
 What happens next depends on how far they push certain people .
If 'they' go the route of say 'gated communities '
and they leave those outside alone , then certain people would accept that and carry on as they do now .
But push certain people beyond cracking point and all hell will break out .
I think we are close to that scenario now .
'They' cannot , will not , leave people alone , as 'they' see all who do not comply as a threat . And 'they' need total compliance , subservience  to keep the status quo ( no , not the group ) .
Nuclear power is just one part of the problem , albeit a deadly one .
If tshtf tonight i would get by , although i would miss some things .
As i have said many times before , i do what i do and live as i do because i want to . Yes i detest the system as it is , and i think it is all going very wrong and the way we live will change on a huge scale , but i don't live as i do because of that . But if and when tshtf i will cope ok due to my lifestyle !
But what if one of their nuclear plants goes tits up ? Well fukushima me , i will be up that creek with all the rest .

[Small Farmer]

So to sum-up a lot of people are bothered by
- nuclear
- wind power
- biomass


while
- we import most of our gas and oil, substantially from difficult countries
- we have huge coal reserves which are now incredibly expensive to recover (thanks Mrs T) and very ungreen
- the remaining AGRs and many conventional stations are worn-out


but we all want the lights to stay on.


A read of http://www.nationalgrid.com/NR/rdonlyres/CF7E564E-BD49-4E3B-B772-F1A908EE0059/57213/UKFutureEnergyScenarios2012.pdf which has just been published by National Grid is quite sobering.  It has three forecasts based on groups of assumptions.  They will be wrong but you have to start somewhere.


For wind power enthusiasts current installed capacity is about 3GW while consented and in-planning capacity is another 4GW.  However forecast 2020 wind capacity is around 16GW on the slowest assumption.  And 39GW on the fast growth assumptions.  About two-thirds of this is offshore but that's still a lot.



This report (and it's a chunky read) persuades me that nuclear power is worth a great deal of thought.


Japan is a particular case.  It's a country which shows all the downsides of individual and political consensus by spending the last 20 years not getting to grips with its financial crisis and ageing population.  Japan has no energy supply of its own so nuclear was a no-brainer.  Everything that followed was plain stupid, however.  They installed cheap reactors without proper containment in a geologically active country, then lied about the risks and took awesome shortcuts.


We do seem now to face a fairly unpleasant bunch of choices, one of which is to let the lights go out.

[Birdie Wife]

Putting the gas prices up is one way to train 60million people to put an extra woolly on rather than turn the heating up.

The best answer is to use less energy not find ways of creating more with Nuclear power.

Completely agree - nail on the head there. Although I don't mind nuclear as much as wind turbines - far less propoganda as far as I'm concerned. I'd be interested to know how many of those who are against nucelar power have lived close to a nuclear power plant? France gets 80% of its power from nuclear and now they are exporting energy to us (EDF).

[mab]

the problem is that nuclear is that it's the energy equivalent of a credit card - cheap abundant energy now; pay later (or leave it for the next generation to pay for - like they're having to pay for everything else). very appealing to politicians thinking about the short-term.

It's hard to argue the case for funding renewables because, while there are a lot of good ideas, it's all as yet unproven or still being developed and people want guaranteed power.

There are viable energy storage solutions such as pumped hydro storage:

http://www.fhc.co.uk/index.asp

but there's not yet enough to meet the needs of the renewable energy sector.

As has been said the best solution is energy conservation - there are still a huge number of buildings in the UK with very poor insulation.

[northfifeduckling]

I grew up about 30 miles from one. It's not the view of the building or the cloud that I "don't like" them  .There are more issues to consider - mining is very unsafe for the local population - and that dirty job is happening on mainly indigenous lands. and on the other side the rubbish can be turned into nice weapons. It's a similar argument like that flying is safer than cars - but when it goes down you're in deep trouble. Whoever promotes them is the sorcerer's apprentice or Homer Simpson, most likely a bit of both...delusional sense of omnipotence 

[deepinthewoods]

''delusional sense of omnipotance''  what a great way of putting it.
 
if you are pro nucllear, ask yourself where the uranium comes from in the first place. check my link to shinkolobwe, and others. there is no such thing as a safe uranium mine.

[jaykay]

What do the pro-nuclears think about the waste?

[deepinthewoods]

they havent got that far. 100 000 tonnes of waste in the uk so far. most of it stored above ground in concrete boxes.
 
there is no known way of disposing of it safely. it will just grow and grow and grow.
 
 http://www.nda.gov.uk/ukinventory/summaries/

[escapedtothecountry]

Though more people die in mining coal than die from the nuclear industry.. before we even talk about emissions (remember acid rain). You need a mixture of energy sources which include renewables; fossil fuels; and yes unless you want the lights to go out nuclear.

[deepinthewoods]

some interesting reading here,
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-science-of-the-silver
 
from the above link....
''In 1998 the U.S. Department of Energy had about 500,000 metric tons of depleted uranium in storage. ''

[deepinthewoods]

Though more people die in mining coal than die from the nuclear industry.. before we even talk about emissions (remember acid rain). You need a mixture of energy sources which include renewables; fossil fuels; and yes unless you want the lights to go out nuclear.

i agree you do need a mix. but are you seriously telling me that chernobyl and fukushima arent killing people.   maybe the 'industry' ie production and delivery costs less lives but when it goes wrong it kills millions. have you forgotten hiroshima and nagasaki??

[escapedtothecountry]

My original statement stands - more people die in mining than in nuclear power plants.


Not sure our power plants are built near tectonic plates or areas where a tsunami will hit unlike Japan which historically gets impacted by these weather events. And of course the Soviets failed to invest in their nuclear industry safety programme so that argument is not comparing apples with apples.


You legitimately may not like nuclear power. Renewables cannot meet demand in this country no matter what rhetoric we get from politicians. Solar has the inherent problem of at times of peak demand - night time and Winter the sun, well, does not shine. Wind is intermittent.


You are left with coal gas and nuclear. We need all three.

[deepinthewoods]

My original statement stands - more people die in mining than in nuclear power plants.


Not sure our power plants are built near tectonic plates or areas where a tsunami will hit unlike Japan which historically gets impacted by these weather events. And of course the Soviets failed to invest in their nuclear industry safety programme so that argument is not comparing apples with apples.


You legitimately may not like nuclear power. Renewables cannot meet demand in this country no matter what rhetoric we get from politicians. Solar has the inherent problem of at times of peak demand - night time and Winter the sun, well, does not shine. Wind is intermittent.


You are left with coal gas and nuclear. We need all three.

the comparison isnt valid.  do some research on the history of uranium mining.
 
coal, gas, yes, if we can capture the carbon effectively, whilst we INVEST and promote and deploy renewables. solar panels everywhere, wind turbines everywhere, whilst we sort out safe, ideally free energy.
 
but no more nuclear. its playing with fire. nfd's right ''delusional omnipitence''