[doganjo]

It's not a case of having a standard.  Labradoodles in this country have not yet bred true to type for seven generations  that is the criteria required before the KC will register them and set down a standard. If you breed a labradoodle to a labradoodle you can get anything from a leggy Labrador to a chunky poodle, with short soft hair to curly long hair - and they needn't be hypo allergenic.

The Australian Labradoodle however, is registered in Oz and does breed true to type and you can bring them into the UK, there might even be breeders here - I saw one on Monday night.  Just looked like a larger version of a Spanish Water Dog to me.  Had a lovely temperament.

[robate55]

I have seen a lovely Australian Labradoodle - but obtained at 8 weeks already speyed!!!!
Rose

[Sharnoak]

The Australian Labradoodle however, is registered in Oz and does breed true to type and you can bring them into the UK, there might even be breeders here - I saw one on Monday night.  Just looked like a larger version of a Spanish Water Dog to me.  Had a lovely temperament.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure that they aren't registered and have certainly never seen one in the show ring, although you do see quite a few around in other places! I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked if my Briards are Labradoodles  !

[doganjo]

The Australian Labradoodle however, is registered in Oz and does breed true to type and you can bring them into the UK, there might even be breeders here - I saw one on Monday night.  Just looked like a larger version of a Spanish Water Dog to me.  Had a lovely temperament.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure that they aren't registered and have certainly never seen one in the show ring, although you do see quite a few around in other places! I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked if my Briards are Labradoodles  !

I have never been to your country so I can only marvel at the vastness, I am only going on what a 'doodle breeder here told me.  She wanted to buy a couple so she could breed type adn sell them as a pure breed.  I'll bet you can imagine what I said.   I'm not going through that again!

[robert waddell]

so not a lot of light at the end of the tunnel     for every good breeder there is probably 12 or nearer 120 not so good ones       i still think money is the driver  with pedigree dog breeding and the endorsements   i just hope that government intervention does not happen and end up with the fiasco that ensued with the ban on fox hunting
yes there are to many dogs being bread
yes they have health issues
yes the responsible breeders will limit there output but that just opens the floodgates for the breeders that are only in it for the pounds to expand even more
and any way who has the right to condemn somebody like myself that breeds dogs to the standards  i think fit and proper  in favour of somebody that that has them on a factory line on concrete and never near a family environment until little Johny or Katie proclaims   i WANT that one

[AengusOg]

I have not been here for some time, but feel that I must respond to this thread, given that it was the information on our pet CKC spaniel, information given to Rosemary without realising it would become the subject of discussion on a public forum, which started this debate.

The gentleman from whom we bought our pup breeds pups from healthy, well-looked-after brood stock which have all had all the health checks necessary to ensure that they and their progeny have the best chance of living their lives free of the terrible conditions which afflict some individuals within the breed who have not had the benefits of such stringent testing before being utilised as breeding stock.

The breeder from whom we bought our pup was very clear with us, right from our first point of enquiry, that his brood stock were health-checked, and that he put breeding restrictions on his pups sold, although these may be lifted in the future, provided he was sure that the prospective breeders had their animal checked to the necessary standards. If the restriction were lifted, the breeder would be on hand to offer advice on pedigree lines/choice of stud dog, and other matters which may concern a prospective breeder of one of his pups.

Incidently, he also said he seldom sells pups to homes with children under the age of five, but, after meeting us as a family, agreed that we were suitable for one of his pups.

My wife did months of research on the breed, and was able to discuss at some length the merits of the gentleman's brood bitches and stud dog...a matter which he seemed to appreciate. He also appreciated the fact that my wife discussed many things concerning his dogs before she even asked the price of a pup.

I don't find anything wrong with a breeder of healthy quality stock, who has spent money and time getting his breeding right and wanting to ensure the future reputation of his stock and his good name, putting such restrictions on at the time of sale of his pups. I would if I were in his position.

As it happens, we have no intentions of breeding from our wee bitch, despite the fact that she is a lovely example of the breed and her sire is arguably the best in the uk. We paid quite a lot of money for her, but we got the best we could find and, chances are, she will live a long healthy life, due, in the main, to her breeder's vigilance and commitment.

[doganjo]

Thank you for that, exactly what I hope my puppy buyers would all say.

[Moleskins]

In reply to AengusOg


All of that would be fine were it not for the fact that leaving the breeding of dogs in the hands of 'breeders' and the kennel club has led to many of the health problems you have hopefully managed to avoid.
In addition by only having 'professional breeders' you create an elite who can dictate a market for animals and as Doganjo reminds us 'dogs should not be bred for money'.

[robert waddell]

moleskins that is exactly why i started the discussion
aengusOg    after i read your post i went back to the beginning then went through the dog postings goldcraig started the ckc post rosemary highlighted a breeder and i went on the breeders website and found out about the brains being to large for the skull
 
if you are happy with your dog and what you paid for it  that is fine  no problem enjoy your choice of dog they have a certain cuttsie factor     just like kunnie pigs or any other animal that appeals to a certain few or many as the case may be     just not for me
 
i have been in the same situation with pigs when the value asked was relevant to the vehicle i was driving     i just walked away and still friends with that breeder
 
if my posting prevented even just one potential buyer from being shafted by these breeders then it has been of benefit       initially it is my view then thrown open for others to add to it  just like you have after all it is an open forum 

[doganjo]

In reply to AengusOg


All of that would be fine were it not for the fact that leaving the breeding of dogs in the hands of 'breeders' and the kennel club has led to many of the health problems you have hopefully managed to avoid.
In addition by only having 'professional breeders' you create an elite who can dictate a market for animals and as Doganjo reminds us 'dogs should not be bred for money'.

Oh no, you are at it again!  Do please try to get rid of that huge chip. [size=78%]  [/size]Many people who are  are in it for money - I think I already mentioned one person I know who is about to take a third litter from a 5/6 year old bitch in 3 years who, prior to my helping, had no knowledge of even the mating process let alone the whelping and rearing. Most 'breeders' have a litter so they can keep a pup to carry on their lines. I agree there are some bad ones, but they are being reduced due to Kennel Club actions - the Assured Breeder Scheme being one.
Do stop banging on about it moleskins you are becoming boring.
And as for you Robert, stick to pigs,and I'll see you in about a couple of hours 

[robert waddell]

Annie there is similarity's with the dog breeders and the pig breeders not all are there to fleece the buyer just some and they get all the attention    even the cat breeders can be a bit suspect with there operation with cages of cats in sheds see you soon 

[doganjo]

I agree, Robert, not often that happens, eh?  See you soon x

[Moleskins]

You see Doganjo, there you go again, accusing someone you've never met of having a chip about something. If anything your attitude to dog breeding has hardened my view. I agree it must be getting boring to those following this thread, so as you're determined to have the last word go ahead but, you know and I know,  there are countless breeders out there approved by the KC who are screwing up dog breeding.
Yet in the face of that you won't accept that it's right for someone who has a good dog to be able to have a litter of pups with it thereby populating the world with good dogs.
That is my preference, good dogs. Your preference can be KC approved ones, with all their problems, if you like, you'll never bully me into changing my view.
So, as I say, as you're so determined to, you can have the last word on it.

[doganjo]

You have me wrong too.  I agree with you that there are some bad breeders out there, but you are wrong about them being the biggest ones, some of the bad breeders are those with only one bitch, some of the bad breeders may have 2, 3 or four bitches and breed every season, without proper health checks  - those are the bad breeders. I also agree with you only good dogs should be bred from, proven good dogs. I also think that only HEALTHY dogs should be bred from.  And that means having the tests recommended by the Kennel Club.  I also think that dogs should not be bred for profit - as you have said.  If you look after your bitch properly, and do all the health tests, feed both her and the pups properly then you will not make much money out of it - at best you will obtain forced saving.


I have no objection to anyone breeding under those terms - I have not bred a lot of litters in my time as a breeder but each one has been bred healthily, thoughtfully, with extreme care of my bitches and their pups, and my own stud dog, with thought to the pedigrees and how they relate to each other, and from PROVEN good dogs.  Competition is the way to prove whether a dog is good - not the owners eyes.  Any terrier or hound man will tell you that.

[AengusOg]

aengusOg    after i read your post i went back to the beginning then went through the dog postings goldcraig started the ckc post rosemary highlighted a breeder and i went on the breeders website and found out about the brains being to large for the skull

That's the breeder we bought our bitch from (I don't know if you got that ), and I found him to have a very responsible approach to his breeding. 'Brains being too large for the skull is precisely what he is trying to avoid and eliminate in his breeding by rigorously testing his brood stock and putting endorsements on his pups sold. I'd rather his information had not been included in this forum, but Rosemary enquired of us as to where we sourced our pup. We didn't realise that the information we gave would be put on this forum and become the spark for the diatribe which resulted.
 

if you are happy with your dog and what you paid for it  that is fine  no problem enjoy your choice of dog they have a certain cuttsie factor     just like kunnie pigs or any other animal that appeals to a certain few or many as the case may be     just not for me

We are very happy with our pup, thank you. You have no idea what we paid for her (unless that information has been divulged on my behalf as well), but we felt that is was fair money for the quality we sought. Having been involved with stock and horses for many years, I know what I like and what I'm prepared to pay. Having kept and trained gundogs, terriers, lurchers, collies, and pet dogs all my life, I can honestly say that our Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is one of the most intelligent, tractable, fun-loving, safe, and lovable dogs I have ever met. Not for macho men, perhaps, but...
 

i have been in the same situation with pigs when the value asked was relevant to the vehicle i was driving

     

What an unfortunate position to find yourself in. I have not experienced that, so cannot comment further on that subject.
 

if my posting prevented even just one potential buyer from being shafted by these breeders then it has been of benefit       initially it is my view then thrown open for others to add to it  just like you have after all it is an open forum 

I have never found your ramblings to be that interesting. I doubt you'll have influenced the commited seekers of well-bred dogs.