[doganjo]

No it isn't.  If the criteria laid down at the time of selling a pup are fulfilled then the endorsement may be lifted.  I lift them when asked, (and I make it very clear at the time the pup goes away that I will do so), if the pup has reached two years of age, has been x-rayed for HD and is below or not much above the breed average (the only required health check for our breed), is given a vet health check up, and is of sound temperament - which it should be from my lines, but I always make sure.  I prefer to recommend a stud, but it is their dog so I cannot force the owner to take that recommendation.

Endorsement is a method of taking care of a breed's and an individual dog's future.

[in the hills]

Oh ...... I think my dog has an endorsement paper or whatever the term is.

I know that his breeder said that if I ever wanted to breed from him, it would be lifted once eyes and hips were checked. I cant see that it is a problem. If I had wanted to breed from him I would assume that those checks were essential anyway. Not only for the health of the breed but because anyone choosing to buy a pup and paying hundreds of pounds would expect the checks to have been carried out.

I dont think the breeder was trying to monopolise breeding in anyway but she did care about the breed and the pups she sold. She only had an occasional litter and is still in touch with me now. All the dogs she sold get birthday and christmas cards and I know that she has taken back one dog that she was concerned about and helped others by boarding them in her own home when their owners had difficulties(house flooded). That is a big responsibility. To me she was a good breeder. 

[Moleskins]

1) If I had wanted to breed from him I would assume that those checks were essential anyway. Not only for the health of the breed but because anyone choosing to buy a pup and paying hundreds of pounds would expect the checks to have been carried out.
2) She only had an occasional litter

1) so why would you need to have an endorsement, it wouldn't change what you did.
2) not a 'breeder' by my standards, my problem is with people who breed dogs in poor conditions, offload the redundant dogs / bitches, carry out an op. on a pups hernia with cotton buds and needle and thread, and breed in faults for whatever reason. Etc etc.

This forum is littered (no pun intended) with breeders of pigs, sheep, chickens, goats, goodness knows what. Most of whom don't have clue about what they're doing, yet when it comes to dogs ...............

[doganjo]

Oh ...... I think my dog has an endorsement paper or whatever the term is.

I know that his breeder said that if I ever wanted to breed from him, it would be lifted once eyes and hips were checked. I cant see that it is a problem. If I had wanted to breed from him I would assume that those checks were essential anyway. Not only for the health of the breed but because anyone choosing to buy a pup and paying hundreds of pounds would expect the checks to have been carried out.

I dont think the breeder was trying to monopolise breeding in anyway but she did care about the breed and the pups she sold. She only had an occasional litter and is still in touch with me now. All the dogs she sold get birthday and christmas cards and I know that she has taken back one dog that she was concerned about and helped others by boarding them in her own home when their owners had difficulties(house flooded). That is a big responsibility. To me she was a good breeder. 

He he - I'm a softy too then - mine get birthday cards too - and a big goody bag when they leave.  A piece of Mum's bed, a toy, a lead, a collar, a chew, and some of the food they are used to.  Fortunately I haven't ever had any returned in the last 30 years, but I have kennels in my garage for visitors (some folk ask me to look after their pups/dogs overnight rather than put them in a strange kennel) and just in case I ever get any back to re-home, and space in the house too if need be.  I wouldn't breed if I wasn't able to do this. 

[in the hills]

moleskins - no the endorsement wouldnt change what I did. I had a dog with an inherited eye condition and so would test for the well being of breed and any pups produced. so endorsement not needed but also not a worry.
Maybe endorsements encourage people to consider more before breeding (if they wish to register) ?
Are you against endorsements?

I think she would class herself as a responsible breeder. I suppose you are refering more to puppy farms/irresponsible people breeding mainly/solely for cash.

Not sure what you mean by your reference to people on here breeding other animals but not having a clue. I suppose we all have to start somewhere. I am breeding sheep for the first time and yes there are gaps in my knowledge that I am deperate to fill. But as my sheep mentor says, he is still learning now.

This is not my usual place to look and read, though I do keep and love dogs. Have found people answering my questions, worries and concerns in the sheepy section to be really supportive and the details they go into are brilliant. Learning so much by reading answers to others questions too.

[Sylvia]

There is a big difference in breeding pedigree dogs and cats and breeding pedigree sheep, pigs and cattle in that, if you have an animal not up to scratch( by that I mean having a deformity that could be hereditary) you can take it to the butcher and eat it! With cats and dogs you must keep them or find them a secure and stable home.

[Moleskins]

Not sure what you mean by your reference to people on here breeding other animals but not having a clue. I suppose we all have to start somewhere. I am breeding sheep for the first time and yes there are gaps in my knowledge that I am deperate to fill. But as my sheep mentor says, he is still learning now.

Just that, we are mostly on here because we have animals of some sort and we're all learning and asking for advice, yet when it comes to dogs if you ask advice suddenly everyones up in arms and out with  flaming torches and pitchforks screaming that you shouldn't breed from your dog.
The sheep side of things is full of nice little comments to people who've lost lambs, sometimes because they've made a mistake. Lost 2 myself because I wasn't there when they were born.
Swap that for someone saying they lost a litter of pups because they left the bitch out in the rain when she was having them and see how many nice little comments come back to you. Double standards ??
The video admired by doganjo of the labs retrieving in the sea to me shows owners being bl**dy stupid.
To say it doesn't matter what we breed with sheep, if we screw up we can eat them, goes over my head.
To insist that every dog needs a home doesn't add up to me, my brothers got a Cocker that's blind that doesn't make sense either, the pup should have been pts.
That's me on this
 

[in the hills]

Okay moleskins, you bet me too it. Couldnt understand what was being said or hinted at. Sorry, I hadnt read past threads on here but just dipped in as it were. Had just looked down at recent past posts and realised ( I can be a bit slow!!!) and was about to post back to say that my comments werent meant to offend. I couldnt figure out what the discussion was getting at and hadnt followed what was going on in the dog section on a daily basis or anything so was trying to make sense of it.

Yes, one would wish all animals regardless of species to get good, forever homes and for breeders to ensure they bred healthy, well balanced animals and gave good advice and care afterwards as needed.

Yes, you do have the option of the butcher with stock animals but ewes are sometimes sold on to inexperienced people (like me) so in part there is still an element of responsibility there, in my opinion, because their welfare is as important as a dogs. I have found breeding of sheep a huge responsibility, even though my rams will go to the butcher.

Gosh!  I will make a hasty retreat too, moleskins, back to the sheepie section.   

[robert waddell]

yes moleskins that was the point of me posting  the poultry section is the same as you have described   i know somebody that will not post because  he does not do double standards   it is good practical advice from a lifetimes  involvement in poultry     the pig section is similar breeders of   pedigree pigs fair enough a rare line yes breed from that but to have pedigree registered that do not conform to the basics of that breed
now to me the dog breeding world are breeding a whole load of problems eyes hips liver brains/skull and it is alright for a select few to breed dogs that should never be in pup in the first place
now i have collies and breed them to the same standards as i did with cattle sheep and pigs and when i started out with dogs to get my bitch lined with a good dog for agility was £450 plus the pick of the litter   i used the same selection process as with all my animals to get a good male dog

[Berkshire Boy]

Oh the mighty kennel club, that organisation that major sponsors run a mile from, the reason so many dogs have inherent problems , that elitist little club that is full of people who know what is best for the breeds, I don't think so.

[wellies]

I have recently purchased a Irish Setter puppy  from  a very reputable breeder. He has endorsements on his pedigree i.e. his youngstock can't be registered and also he can't be exported and a new owner registered. This is to protect the puppy from breeding to early and of course me selling him abroad for a profit to an owner the breeder may not have been happy with. I was happy with the restrictions as they can be lifted if I ask (but I have no intention of breeding from him). I chose a pedigree dog as I know the breed characteristics due to having several other Irish setters and felt he would fit into our life style well. A lot of my puppies litter mates have gone to show homes but the breeder was just as happy mine was to be a 'pet' and very unlikely to be shown. I chose to havea  puppy rather than a rescue as we have another dog and wanted to ensure he accepted another dog to the house and this was more likely with a young dog who was no threat to him. I can honestly say I think the breeder was being responsible. I had my previous Irish Setter castrated and would not of bred from him as he suffered from boat and on further investigation a couple of his litter mates and his sire had suffered too. As there was a genetic predisposition to the condition (as well as other circumstances) it would seem inappropriate to breed from that dog although there were no endorsements on his pedigree.

[HelenVF]

I think the vast majority of puppy buyers don't want to breed.  They just want a healthy dog of their chosen breed.  My gwp sired a couple of litters in his time, and both those were endorsed by the breeder, to be lifted if they felt happy with what was happening. 

I actually bought an english setter last year with the provision that I allow his breeder to use him at stud so it goes both ways.  I was more than happy to do this as the breeder is responsible and won't use him just because.

Helen

[doganjo]

How lovely to have such breaths of fresh air into this subject.  Well done to both of you.  I sometimes feel as if I am banging my head against a brick wall.  You are right that most new owners don't have the immediate intention of breeding but believe me the pound signs start flashing in some of their eyes when they get a bit short of money and they find they have a breed that sells easily.

Good luck to both of you whatever you do with you dogs.  I am off out to a community woodlands with mine - 200 acres of sheer bliss, deer fenced and gated - no training, just fun for them and a nice stroll for me with a friend on a  sunny day .

[Old Shep]

  I am off out to a community woodlands with mine - 200 acres of sheer bliss, deer fenced and gated - no training, just fun for them and a nice stroll for me with a friend on a  sunny day .

Ooh sounds lovely.  Not jealous coz I'm stuck at work, honest... 

[doganjo]

Just back, the garden calls afer this cup of tea - lovely day with dogs doing their usual disappearing act going after rabbits and birds.  We all ended up at the gate at the same time without whistling though so a good day 

Just planted some radish seeds, next to make a long raised bed for the onions which are in plugs at the moment.  Raised beds are good - above dog wee height!