Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Meishans  (Read 22384 times)

tizaala

  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Dolau, Llandrindod Wells,Powys
Re: Meishans
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2012, 09:34:59 am »
Oh Dan, maybe I would have prevented the Irish potatoe famine.....!

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Meishans
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2012, 09:47:16 am »
It was me that kicked all this off but as Bioman(Peter) says some of us are particularly protective about our own struggling native and rare breeds and see this importation as an unecessary escapade when many pig keepers are in straightened times and there are already copious numbers of novelty pigs in rescue centres up and down the country. I see it as only a money making scheme and exploitation of these animals for the publicity they will bring the keeper and the money they will no doubt be planning to make (these weaners ain't gonna sell for £25 down the market! ::))  i hope the pigs remain healthy and happy in their new set up and i'm sure the local welfare people to them will be keeping a close eye on them for any problems and that they have long lives.
Mandy  :pig:

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2012, 10:09:55 am »
Hi Robert

No they are not in pig yet as they are too young, they will be AI in April. We then have to wait at least four weeks before we bring them over which will be May/June and when the dutch vets will let them go. Obviously we have taken advice on this from them. The piglets will be due September (ish). Then obviously it will be eight weeks later when we can sell them. Not a good time to sell them but nothing we can do about that. Yes I agree I am possibly counting my chickens, its a worry believe you me that something goes wrong and I lose the piglets. However I was sounding the interest out not actually going to be taking orders as that is tempting fate. With any new venture it is always a worry in case it falls flat but when you have potentially 30 piglets to feed, it is more of a worry. I know to a farmer like yourself, unless you can see a valid commercial reason for bringing them over, it would not make sense. But there is no commercial reason other than recouping my money back and of course hopefully make a little profit but although this is normal business sense, some people on here seem to think i shouldn't be thinking of profit. I can only say to that, their business must be running at a loss if they don't think profit is a good thing. Ithink and hope that there will be interest in them but I don't have a clue how they will sell initially or in the long term.  It could take off or it could fall flat on its back. I will be guided by the interest as to what I do with them in the long term. As far as my comment was concerned about I don't care a fig about the reasons why they are not be kept or whatever by the Chinese, is becuase it really isn't relevent to what I have planned. I am not planning to take over the pig production world, I don't think they will be bought as pets, although you know as well as I do that people often end up keeping pigs as pets becuase they don't have the heart to slaughter them.  I have had good mileage I agree, hopefully when they come over I will be getting alot more, becuase lets face it, as a pig they are unique and I fully expect some smallholders to buy one or two to go alongside their other pigs as one post suggested. I am going to have to work hard at marketing them thats for sure.  And of course I do want them sold asap to allow me to recoup my costs. As you say the traditional breed market is struggling but can you honestly think the meishan will take over from some of our loveliest breeds, I think not. So on that front, I don't think anyone should worry. i do think as well that there are people out there no matter how much you hate it or disagree with it, cross traditional breeds to experiement with the meat. We ourselves have experimented for our own consumption crossing our own breeds, the mangalista with the large black was exceptionally tasty. But please don't think by that comment I am advocating trying to dilute the traditional breeds, I am merely saying it goes on and will go on regardless of whether the meshian is in this country or not.

Why would there be more confidence in a pig that came direct from china, in fact according to one post, there is a disease worry possibly attached.  Years ago - sorry not sure of the date, 25 meishans came over to Europe from china (similar to some of our breeds who were crossed with asian pigs) and the majority of meishans in europe are descendants of theose 25. Don't shout at me if I am a bit wrong there as I was told by the breeder in Holland that fact. The US is still using meshian seman in some commercial herds although as one post put it, it is declining, however we know the pig industry to be driven by need and fashion, one breed is in vogue one day but not the next hence the reason we lost some of our traditional breeds.  I know it is hard to take on board and understand reasons behind bringing them over, but its a case of I want try my own meat from them, have a play with the lard and fat as in experiment not playing with it :D and generally keep them as they are really nice pigs. I don't think the fact they are ugly comes into it, the middle white is not exactly a pretty pig and that sells. If people are taken by them they will buy them regardless of what they look like or indeed because of what they look like.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:24:17 am by Rispain »

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2012, 10:12:12 am »
Mandy why on earth would the animal health be keeping a close eye on them, they are no different from our other pigs we have had. They are not some precious animal that will be living in an ivory tower, they will be living in an ark in a paddock like any other bog standard pig, Your right about the £25, anyone who sells pigs for £25 needs their head examining and it really gets me angry when you see traditional breeds selling £25-£35, thesebreeders are the curse of the traditional breed industry and in my opinion doing breeders as a whole no favours whatsoever
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:16:17 am by Rispain »

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Meishans
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2012, 10:28:19 am »
Mandy why on earth would the animal health be keeping a close eye on them,

Merely from the point of view that they are unusual, imported and because they are classed as livestock they don't have to undergo the rigourous quarantine that domestic pets do. It would be the least i would expect if they were mine however i stand to be corrected.
Mandy  :pig:
Ps don't all pigs live in ivory towers? mine do  ;)

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2012, 10:37:54 am »
But I know three people who have imported, they never even got a visit, although i fully expect them to come out initially maybe, They are going in a paddock next to Large blacks  but I doubt they will keep an eye on them, just the usual yearly checks.  ;D They will be taken to shows next year as part of our stand.

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Meishans
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2012, 10:40:26 am »
Well i shall look forward with interest to seeing them.
Mandy :pig:

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Meishans
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2012, 10:47:47 am »
so what you are saying is the meishans in Europe are not true to breed             and yes Asia has disease problems that is why they are massive importers and the price is increasing in Australia

it is very risky times to be going into a new pig venture     although some commercial pig farms are expanding
the price is governed by various factors the biggest one was the dioxin scare in germany that put pigs right on there arse(now where did all that contaminated pork end up  i wonder) then you have the popularity of pigs people were breeding with no market for there piglets and faced with the cost of feeding (i keep telling everbody you start with 2  you then get 22 and before they are finished you can have 44 or even 66) and no outlet for them it is no surprise that breeders were selling as low as £5 a piglet  as i have said before pedigree pigs and good ones at that are failling to sell at anything more than meat prices £350 was an excellent price at the sales  and that is only really the price of a carcass :farmer:

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Meishans
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2012, 12:04:26 pm »
Rispain  :trophy: You have my undying admiration for keeping your cool.

Come on guys, HH is right - this isn't going to bring the British pig industry to its knees. Sounds like Rispain already supports British rare and traditional breeds and this is a wee personal project - can't see the Meishan being the next Danish Landrace, can you?

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2012, 12:18:57 pm »
You're doing a peter,  ;D Robert, not reading the posts properly. Where have I said they are not true to breed. Look do you mind if we stop this now, i don't see the point of arguing over every little point. I have done my research, going over there, speaking with breeders of meishans all over the world including china and the US. If I lose my money, well its my money to lose. Its not going to effect you whatsoever.

What would be nice dispite how you feel is to wish me luck as a fellow pig breeder of tradtional breeds, luck in my new venture. You have made your point loud and clear, now can we move on please.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 12:32:47 pm by Rispain »

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2012, 12:24:45 pm »
Mandy, you will always be welcome   :)

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Meishans
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2012, 01:16:29 pm »
sorry just have to come back     there are people that see your venture as good go for it go get them girl
but there have been problems with importations of other breeds  and serious problems
it is one thing to buy an animal that looks like the description  but will they breed true to form   is there a herd book for them how many generations does it go back   does china have herd books can they all be traced back to there country of origin   iron age pigs that is a classic example    derived from crossing wild boar with Tamworth's  the first cross is iron age  the next cross with tamworth is 75% tamworth and so on it may look like an iron age but is getting near pure to tamworth
pietrains they were introduced and importers sold there stock as being able to be registered in Britain  that ended up being an almost disaster
as the tamworth rep for Scotland (Lillian) it is surprising the amount  of people that buy alleged pedigree pigs without paper work then spit the dummy out when they realise they have been conned
i do hope you can satisfy any genuine intended purchasers  and have found an outlet for your talents but look on the bright side if nobody replied to your posting you would have been equally miffed and not nearly 6oo views publicity of any kind is still publicity and you are world wide on here :farmer:

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2012, 01:47:49 pm »
ok one last reply to your robert. I totally and utterly agree with what you say about the problems. The problem of buying pedgree stock which is not pedigree, is an ongoing problem, which I believe has got massive, however that said, I think the BPA can do more to regulate the boars etc, to justify their huge fee. Rember we are talking just two sows that is part of a project that may only last a year. Out of those two sows, (yes they can have up to 18 piglets), but only a tiny percentage of them will be sold as breeding stock if at all. The boars will obviously all be castrated. Of course there is always the risk that people will breed with the females, but to do that they would have to cross it with another breed. I or anyone else will never stop that with any of the breeds. It goes on all the time now unfortunately. Remember I will hold all the ltd seman and will only sell the seman to people who have bought from us breeding stock. I suspect initially i will be so terrified of selling crap as breeding stock that I will go overboard when it comes to making that choice. Until we have more confidence and get the experience, the plan is to send photos back to the breeders of each piglet and get their opinion on the wrinkles as that is a major factor in breeding stock before I make a choice, a bit like the underline in our breeds.  As I said I have got to go on the interest as to whether we continue after these first litters. Yes it would be nice if the meshians caught on, but I can't honestly see it ever overtaking the traditional breeds. As Peter elequently put it, their meat is very fatty and marbled so to some people, even those who like fat, it may just be off-putting. We will just have to see. Ask me in a year and half if it has been a success and I will honestly tell you how we are doing. We can debate for ever what might or might not happen, but I am looking forward to them coming over and please feel free to come and see them if you like once they are here.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 01:49:45 pm by Rispain »

Rispain

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: Meishans
« Reply #73 on: January 20, 2012, 02:03:33 pm »
The last word from one of the gilts coming over.

WHO ARE YOU CALLING UGLY!!!!


robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Meishans
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2012, 02:40:10 pm »
are you still down the west coast
on the fat  well it depends     that year before we had mangalitsas at the highland show Cherilyn Anne had some produce on  she had sliced cooked ham  yes it was fat not unlike the picture so in the interest of all concerned i sampled some now i have to say i do not like fat and swithered will i wont i  eventually sampling a slice  the fat melted in your mouth and was very tasty but it all depends on how it is cooked or indeed in what it is cooked
the following year Dougie mac illwrath   came on the stand and he was told if you are looking for a weekend of debauchery  get one these hams     he is based not that far from Cherilyn Anne
i hope all the posting has given you some idea of what will be asked and expected of the meshans
but what is the point  of cutting all the boars and only selling a minority of gilts for breeding you are not going to end up with a gene pool   2 unrelated guilt's in pig to unrelated boars and you have the basis for them in this country even with the Hampshire's you have to watch what you are doing and that is with 13-15 registered breeders :farmer:

 

Meishans in Scotland

Started by rispainfarm (8.41)

Replies: 17
Views: 4076
Last post July 12, 2012, 02:48:47 pm
by rispainfarm

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