[Sylvia]

yes and if they break in to your house and they get savaged by your dog you are done for keeping a dangerous animal and the dog destroyed
o and they do not get charged with breaking in   f*****g mental at least in America you have the right to defend yourself and your property
still does not stop the criminals from persuing there profession in America  

I do believe that this is swinging to the side of the victim, Robert. At least, I hope so! As for the riots, the police can do bugger all, only stand in a line with riot sheilds and squirt water at them Where are are the army?(those that aren't off fighting someone else's war!!) A full platoon of soldiers fully armed will, I'm sure make these waste of spacers think twice.
I'm all for legitimate protests and the right for anyone to speak their mind but not this mindless violence by people who will spark off a riot at the drop of someone else's hat

[waterhouse]

Returning to fiscal responsibility is great but needed to happen a long time ago.  Threatening to default the US debt was a really neat stunt that has had some scary consequences.

Job creation numbers in the US are notoriously unreliable (they're persistently revised downwards months later) but show that at best the economy is treading water.  Shrinking the economy in that situation will put a few more million out of work, which will shrink the economy further, cause more people to lose their houses, bigger problems with asset values and bust more banks.  The assumption always is that the US entrepreneurial environment will grow its way out of any downturn.  Well this time looks different.

Here's a few issues:
1. Asset values (like house prices) have risen too far based on excessive supplies of credit (bank debt).  When the music stops, the first loser is the homeowner but the second and bigger loser is the bank.  We all hate banks but when banks lose money they stop lending and business can't borrow, can't prosper.  Eventually banks go bust and that definitely is bad cos the FDIC only picks up some of the deposits
2.  The country is spending more than it earns (the current account deficit) which cause the overall borrowings to get bigger, which makes the current account deficit bigger.
3.  Depreciating the currency is a tricker option when you're the global reserve currency AND there's a queue of other countries trying to depreciate theirs too. It's a zero sum game

Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are providing leadership or solutions.  Both are looking at the presidential elections, so classic short term crap is going to be the rule.  Is anyone talking of downsizing the military (massive job losses, but a massive waste in weapons programmes) or addressing the humungous fraud in Medicare and Medicaid

[deepinthewoods]

theres a lot of naievety being shown on this thread imho.
i have worked with innercity getto kids, lives there are cheap, they play for keeps, you step up or step out, the gang culture is born out of a dire need to protect yourself. drugs, unfortunately, are at its root as they are the  only  method these kids have to make some money. you cant say 'get a job' if there are no jobs, you cant say 'educate yourself' if the schools are crap. 'no hope no future no point, lets all riot, and get a flatscreen innit'
 

[NormandyMary]

theres a lot of naievety being shown on this thread imho.
i have worked with innercity getto kids, lives there are cheap, they play for keeps, you step up or step out, the gang culture is born out of a dire need to protect yourself. drugs, unfortunately, are at its root as they are the  only  method these kids have to make some money. you cant say 'get a job' if there are no jobs, you cant say 'educate yourself' if the schools are crap. 'no hope no future no point, lets all riot, and get a flatscreen innit'
 

Sorry, but that's no excuse for the mindless violence and larceny we have seen on the TV today. Not every single black inner city child follows this path, and infact, according to the news just now, many of those in court today were from out of the area, and were educated, ie graduates. They know they are doing wrong, and if they are so proud of what they are doing, why do they cover their faces. They are mindless cowardly thugs who deserve all the punishment they get including a pasting from the police. If they dont want the punishment, they should keep well away. They have been warned today by the Prime Minister after all. Im just so glad that my daughters company have sent everyone home this afternoon, she lives in Swindon.

[deepinthewoods]

i didnt say it was an excuse, just a reason. and if there are educated graduates involved then what does that say?
 these educated graduates are rioting. didnt something similar happen in the late 60's in france?

[northfifeduckling]

extreme. you failed to notice that there have been two invasions of a house and a shop. both robbers were stabbed to death the home owner is off the hook the shop keeper will get off in the end.


Good, because I feel the law is on the wrong side here. The latest I read about was the robber who sued for having been beaten up when he broke into a house at night.

shooting people for theft would still get you done for murder. and yankie girl not everyone thinks your gun control is a sane method your killing more home owners than thieves. again we got rid of our need to carry weapons in the late 18th century shame your country men are still waiting for us to invaid again.

I agree with you, Paul, and Michael Moore, on that the US gun laws don't do anything for reducing crime. Knives and firebombs are bad enough....
Don't take it personally, Yankiegirl...

[kingnigel]

i am not and will no excuse what i see on tv at the moment, but the reasons are plain to see,
if you dont have a stake in society then you have nothing to lose, the youth of today have been ignored for far too long by our political classes and it has to stop.
kids need to be engaged in the decision  making process that effect their future, im not sure how this can be achieved but if we continue to ignore them we will reach a tipping point and it will be too late.
give them a sense of worth so they at least have something to lose
kn

time to ruffle some feathers

[deepinthewoods]

yup bang on.

these kids, have NO HOPE, never going to own a house, no jobs so they can even try to. nothing.
 im not quite 40, when the early 90s recession hit, you could still find work if you really wanted it, i did. this generation cant.

i think that the fact the targets are shops, rather than actually fighting the police (like in the good old days:)), says it all.

[jaykay]

As well as a very robust response to such awful behaviour I think the biggest way to change things is to ensure there's decent work.

Where I grew up (steel works and pits) work used up excessive energy and provided a structure and discipline. Older blokes looked after the younger ones but kept them in line too. Sure, Fri and Sat nights were quite lively, once folk had been paid, but the supervisors drank in the same pubs and kept the excesses in check. Plus folk had to be able to get up in the morning, or they let the whole shift down.

If you've no hope of work, ever, and your family has no history of work, what are you to do?

Deep, posted at the same time as you - seems we think the same way :-)

[knightquest]

Firstly, Come back Yankiegirl. You have valid opinions!

Secondly. I live in the innercity Birmingham area and I experienced some real sh*t last year outside of riots but have managed to avoid any trouble thus far this time.

The problem is a lack of respect.

The 'youff' of today respect nothing! Not even themselves! Add to this, a culture of I want, I MUST have - NOW! It is inevitable that these attacks on shops etc will happen.
The police have been castrated by past instances where they have hit innocent people and been hauled over the coals. This time, they stood back while the peaceful protest turned violent and didn't respond quickly enough or hard enough.
The cowardly low lifes who then cover their faces while burgling shops then decide that they will chance it and sometimes get away with it and the word spreads and more of these morons jump on the bandwagon.

One answer is to bring back some form of national service. Get some of the army guys who are being 'let go' in the cuts, to run a two year camp where anyone 14 to 25 who is found guilty of these types of offense has to live and abide by army rules - NO EXCEPTION! If they start off physically unfit, they will get fitter but what it will do is teach respect. Firstly for yourself, then for others and their property.

I should say that I am a shop keeper, so I have a vested interest....................and I will defend my property!

Ian

[waterhouse]

I think the "human rights" balance has got completely out of kilter. 

If you are holding a weapon in a public place then your rights are severely circumscribed. It's only in Westerns where the other guy has to draw before you can shoot him. I don't want policemen put in danger so that someone's "rights" aren't infringed.

Not least because my 19 year old is somewhere out there tonight.  Body armour and pepper gas are not enough when the odds are stacked that much against them.

[Sandy]

Sorry if I missed the point of if some one has said it already but I have only skimmed through these posts, they are interesting but I am multitasking and not concentrating, any way, in my opinion, the police were onto a BIG drug dealer who has power and that shooting, who ever is to  blame and who ever was innocent etc, is used as a trigger for the BIG Crook to pull his army in, he is probably so well connected he can summon up more support than any MP or the Police can, then the opportunists and those who follow any form of fights join in and the Big UNS leave it to them..... Not condoling anything as its the poor normal people who get the *hit end of the stick as in all wars""""""

[shearling]

Firstly, I could have gone behind the screen of another name or as a guest - as is increasingly done so sadly 88 guests at one time today and 5 members? . I choose not to, so as to be counted. Increasingly folk seem to want to listen into the forum (under a cloak of invisibility) and react when they want under their 'name' or maybe a new one? Strikes me a bit like a mob as seen in the riots, headless chickens, scared sheep rather than an organised pack of hounds?

[jaykay]

 

[doganjo]

Firstly, I could have gone behind the screen of another name or as a guest - as is increasingly done so sadly 88 guests at one time today and 5 members? . I choose not to, so as to be counted. Increasingly folk seem to want to listen into the forum (under a cloak of invisibility) and react when they want under their 'name' or maybe a new one? Strikes me a bit like a mob as seen in the riots, headless chickens, scared sheep rather than an organised pack of hounds?

I wonder if I should be afraid then?   I never log out!