[robert waddell]

just think if they search key words       disposal   killing     home kill         castration        guts       stringing them up             some poor sod searching this site with little or no understanding of farming  immagine having to explain to so19 what you are doing
just had another thought   we are world wide  we talk to yankie girl(the one that started this thread) maybe she is known to the FBI 
who knows   who cares    hi ya eariwigers

[pikilily]

Can I come in here and say something positive?  I have skimmed through your conversations....hey what is happening in England is so sad!! We are a dignified nation - I beleive- and this undermines our social strengths. Very Sad!!

Anyway, some one mentioned 'Yootts'. I just want to say please remember this is a minority. My son had a sixteenth birthday party (7 years ago) we had thirty teenagers at that party, and several of my adult friends- BBQ, beers and wines etc. We treated them with respect... like adults, and they responded. We all had a fantastic afternoon and evening, they were a delight to have around, fun, clever, witty, and interested in mixing with us too. These kids, young teenagers, came from ALL sorts of social, educational and financial backgrounds, were on first appearnces wild and scarey.. and yet every one of them treated us and our home with respect. They all stayed overnight...I think some didnt actually sleep. Most got a bit tipsy, some got a bit drunk; yet when we said enough they slowed down. I got up the following day to find them all tidying up, hoovering etc. My house was left cleaner than it started. I was really impressed. We had total breakages of two glasses. No other damage at all.

These kids were not swats, goody-two-shoes, just ordinary scary looking young folk ; Moshers, Emos, Punks, with all the high jinks we would expect..

That experience seven years ago was so good, we have had many many such parties for birthdays and other celebrations and have never had any complaints. Last New Year we invited  a huge gang of them (including folk from USA, and AUS) for the hogmany Ceilidh at the local hall.  My Kirkinch Gang (as they were labelled) were the life and soul of the Ceilidh, dancing and partying with all the locals young and old. It made my heart swell with pride!

One or two from the original party occasionally come and visit  my husband and I, we sit and chew the fat, put the world to rights etc. We listen to their dreams and encourage them.  There are two in particular who were told at school... that they would never acheive anything... that they should settle on working in a shop in Dundee (eg B&Q or  MFI )!! Unfortunately their parents beleived the schools.  We have pushed and challenged them to think bigger and to expand horizons, and they have now completed college, are landscape gardeners, brimming with confidence and self awareness. GO boys!! these two could have easily been labelled as no hope thugs!!

It can be done! I have faith in people and so far it has been rewarded.
A small contribution, perhaps.
Emma T

[Rosemary]

at least whilst typing here, im proving im not torching lidl, only in manchester, loot lidl, not m&s, lidl

 

I think pikililly is right. I'm not excusing what's being done. But you can't just have "stick" there has to be "carrot" and for many of these kids, there's no "carrot", at least no legitimate one. But I'm as bad as anyone - it's someone else's job to sort it. Do I support any youth organisations? Do I offer to help run a youth club? Do I offer to have my nephew here, who's in danger of going off the rails? No. It's the Cooncil's job to occupy the yoofs leisure time (with knitted youth workers, I assume). Or it's the schools, or the Police or parents (and let's face it, some are inadequate but some just need help). Maybe communities have to get involved in supporting young folk - and that includes us.

[Fowgill Farm]

I think Rosemary/Pikalilly are right, for far to long many of us have sat back and done nothing but a lot of this is because of the politically correct society in which we live, for example these days you daren't approach a child for fear of being accused of a paedophile! or try to encourage an older child to be accused of 'grooming' them.
OH employs a lad from our nearest urban conurbation Middlesbrough and he told OH his teenage son was getting involved in things he didn't like, thankfully the kid loves his football so we have agreed to sponsor him thro a football apprenticeship with a local team. He knows that if he sdoesn't behave he'll be kicked out and he'll have let his dad and us down. At heart he's a real good kid and just needs that extra bit of guidance and encouragement. We don't have any children of our own which means we can help but there are many other good kids out there who could be helped if only society and its sick minded attitudes would change.
Mandy 

[pikilily]

yay! there are folk who think like i do!

There is a time and a place for the capital approach...but if we can give the kids the environment to sit back and gain the realisation that there are things to do, places to go, and oportunities to be created. Note 'created', not 'had' !  I am afraid to say that my two  (above) examples came from families whose horizons were living and working in Dundee, get married young, have kids and maybe be on the social, combined with a bit of wheeling-dealing on the side to pay for a holiday in Newport. The boys had never ever heard the suggestion that they could go places, explore, expand..etc  They have so much potential that they just did not recognise or realise..the boys had at various points overheard us talking to our kids..and just plain asked for advice!!! 

Maybe we are lucky to have kids with a positive mental attitutde. Heaven knows, my son could have been a nightmare. He had real troubles to start with. half deaf, half blind, dyspraxia, dyslexia etc. But i threw him in at the deep end, normal mainstream school, karate, skiing horseriding, football...you name it...and boy did he struggle to overcome his difficulties, and he had a really hard time at school.  He could have been a grabbing, selfish thug, but he is a spirited guy who knows his oportunities have to be created.

I think that what I have seen on TV is kids being guided to the wrong type of oportunity. Did you see the news item with the older guy (adult) holding the broken window up and calling to the youngsters to climb in to the shop....my point exactly!!

Emma T (ps I really am not a patronising, nosey, busy-body..)

[Rosemary]

Many years ago (but not THAT many), I worked for a company that used Falkirk College for training staff. One of the lecturers, in catering, used to organise a trip every year for his students (basic grade catering) to London. He took them to the Ritz for afternoon tea, a show, other catering establishments. The powers that were wanted to stop this, saying that the kids didn't need to have tea at the Ritz as they were only basic grade catering students from Falkirk and woudl probably end up flipping burgers in Macdonalds. The lecturer's argument that that was all they would ever be unless they were shown something else to inspire them. Needless to say, the trips stopped. Shame.

[bazzais]

These are frightening times, sickening times, quite un-understandable times and although I am not joining the two or many subjects together - is anyone actually surprised thats riots have taken place - all we were waiting for was the chrysalis, its been brewing and all knew it didnt we? 

We've had many acts of civil disobedience in the last year or so - yes the riots are the thick end of the stick, the anarchy and violence involved is the most frightening part - but are all the means, mechanisms and reasons of these 'protests' actually linked right back to the way the country and society is being run?

Today we see big companies, banks and governments committing fraud, cooperate crimes and major tax evasions on a daily basis all broadcasted on national news but we see nothing changing.  We see government and councils stripping back our public services, help and support for the needy, pricing education out of the reach of many, freedoms being stripped away from the individual but corporations still being given a free reign, hiding behind their own legal identities.

Sure I am playing as the devils advocate here - my first reaction would be to arrest them all, take all their benefits away and shove them into a corner to be forgotten about - but will this solve the problem?  After all - its the problem we have to solve, its no good continuously trying to clean up after.

Youths are angry - everybody is angry - we are all losing faith in the system that keeps us safe from each other (anarchy)

I feel totally let down by the state and I dont even live anywhere near any riots - now that we have these riots we need to show the strong hand of the state - but we should have never let it get this far.

My biggest fear is the pictures we saw last night of groups protecting their own - yes I feel that to a certain extent its great to see community spirit - but its not upto the individual to uphold law - the law needs to be emotive.  - If we dont watch we will have vigilante killings and they will be within or between specific 'groups' of our society, they will alienate themselveas from each other and before we know it we dont have gangs of kids running around - we will have gangs of adults fighting in the streets for their turf.

I have not cried so much watching the news for a long time - this is a country thats tearing itself apart.  The divides are fracturing into chasms.

Baz

[pikilily]

I agree with the tones of what Rosemary and Baz are saying here. We are, generally, and historically, a nation of uninspiring adults, we play safe, dont get involved, dont want to be seen as unusual or dynamic; we're are not proactive really, when we do react its in a less than positive way, a knee jerk. . When occasionally someone is forward thinking, inspiring or creative the Powers snuff it out, smother it and crush the spirit into grey subserviant mush.

Maybe these people who are creating mayhem, creating unease and unrest, and creating problems for us bland humdrum folk will become the Catalist Creaters of something better for the future...eventually!

I dunno...I'll just crawl under a rock and come out in then years time to have a peek!
Emma T

[shetlandpaul]

yet we have tesco and pals being fined for stealing off there customers by fixing prices. are they made to drop the price of milk and cheese for the same amout and for the same time of course not. 50 million spread over 4 supermarkets and 5 processors. chicken feed to them.

[tizaala]

''Youths are angry - everybody is angry - we are all losing faith in the system that keeps us safe from each other (anarchy)''

What right have they got to be angry, the world does not owe them a living, the teenage boys that got slaughtered in the trenches in  ww1 had a right to be angry. The teenage Jews that were gassed in ww2 had a right to be angry. Our boys getting their legs blown off in Afghanistan have a right to be angry. These worthless pieces of crap have forfeited any rights they might have had , stop making excuses for them , they made the choice between right and wrong.

Ps.  forgot to say the people who have to pay for this mess to be cleared up  have a right to be angry.
 and the people who have to pay to keep the bastards in jail have a right to be angry.  OH dear, thats all of us!

[robert waddell]

THEY HAVE NOT PAID THE FINE YET   and the last time the oft tried to fine a suppermarket  the oft backed down  

[bazzais]

My biggest fear is that its too late and not(never) enough - we have lost a generation which is why the rioters (mostly) have spanned gender, race and class. The only thing linking them is age - and does that not say something?

Yes these 'kids' are demanding, but isnt every child?

As a child I dreamt of creating a world where children like me (as a child) didnt feel so outside the circles of reality and so damned mixed up - but I never saw it through - I lost spirit, I became someone with the phrase 'charity starts at home' in my mind - well charity does start at home really and I'm glad I have helped.

Fighting, using and taking on a global scale at a government levels seems to be AOK - is it any surprise that when we look at the youths starting these riots we are looking in a mirror.



I gota say when I was a kid I was well into the idea of anarchy (partly because I didnt know what it entailed) - but these riots just show that from chaos its only the strong who will survive.

I am not strong enough to survive, I would be killed.



Parliament should not have a summer holiday for these reasons - it should not take a week for them to discuss this s**t.  Surly its a full time job running a country and the salary and benisits reflect this.

Baz

[tizaala]

If only people had to pass exams in parenting before they were allowed to have kids, a sterilising pill before pubity that was only reversible after passing with honours.
How many of us would not have been born?
How many would remain childless?
how much of the present trouble would have been prevented?
Can a gang bitch who's had 17 abortions be described as a crime prevention officer?

[bazzais]

You can only teach a dog, sheep, goat or anything through reward bases structures - why is it any different for children - if parents dont have the opportunity or means to offer reward where does that get us?  I whole load of kids who know nothing except being put over their mums knee and struck or getting home to a dad that knocks them into line?

[Rosemary]

If only people had to pass exams in parenting before they were allowed to have kids, a sterilising pill before pubity that was only reversible after passing with honours.

And what would the curriculum be? And how would you pass? Who decides who gets the pill?

The Daily Mail?