[deepinthewoods]

and a damn good riot just results in tougher laws and more police

The Clash - London's Burning [Single]
 

[Sudanpan]

The riots are nothing to do with the economy, what has a drug dealing gunman got to do with finance?
scum like that should be dragged out of cars and summary execution is too good for them.
why should the cop who shot him be put through a public enquiry for just doing his job?
look at the money he's saved the country in not having to keep the bastard in jail and support all his appeals.
the rioters were just there to cause trouble, rent a mob,
give the cop a medal and a bigger gun.

Unfortunately the above about sums up exactly what's gone on - massive knee jerk and violent (albeit in this case written) reaction.

The info coming out about the 'gunfight' that ended up with the death of an individual now seems that the bullets that have been recovered (from the police officer's radio and the victim) were both from police issue weapons.....  I just hope that the final story that comes out does not resemble the complete web of lies that was the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes (sp?) in the tube at the Oval.

The rioters and looters are taking advantage of a situation - pretty typical that it is high value electrical shops being targeted, which is not reflective of unplanned venting of rage. They are undeniably criminals making use of the disturbances. I hope that when they are caught and found guilty that they will get decent terms behind bars and not flipping community service orders (WTF use are they?)

Interesting that Enfield and the West End had adequate police response to stop the flare-ups but Tottenham, Hackney, and Lewisham were left without support for ages.

I've lived in Hackney, Walthamstow and Brixton so I know the situation in these areas - not great to be a police officer there but still not everyone is a criminal.

Very glad we left Walthamstow in 2009

[tizaala]

Believe me Sudanpan , mine was not a knee jerk reaction, I strongly believe that if people put themselves outside the law then they forfiet the right to the protection of the law.
We the general law abiding citizens pay the Police to protect us from gun carying thugs. If in the coarse of doing that the criminal gets shot , then the police have done a good job, that criminal will not re-offend. the CPS WO'NT LET HIM OFF ON A TECHNICALITY. AND JUSTICE WILL HAVE BEEN DONE.
Thats the whole crux of the matter, we have too many laws and not enough justice.

[yankieGirl]

 

the poor are better for the economy than the rich. cut there jobs or welfare and you end up with a deeper recession

What?  

Do you have a job?  Are you part of the guilty "rich" ?   Feeling guilty for working hard and having something to show for yourself?  Being poor doesn't bestow upon a person a higher level of value, morality etc.  Anymore than being well off.  But:

WERE YOU EVER HIRED BY A POOR PERSON?  



Amen tizaala!  Here too!!

[ShaunP]

Without any doubt this has nothing to do with the police shooting on Thursday......perhaps it is now time for a curfew and just shoot anyone on the street after 9pm tonight!!!!

[deepinthewoods]

this has nothing to do with the police shooting. this is also rather serious. as i type there is rioting across london, alos in birmingham and  leeds, rumours of croydon, coventry, mosside in manchester. now if that happens itll put hackney to a minor incident.

[Castle Farm]

It seems that any group of people can, if they wish, create a roit situation and hurl stones/rocks/petrol bombs at our police force. Set fire to property and loot shops and generally do what ever they like and the law just stands around and takes it.

The television coverage on tonights news showed gangs of these moronic hoodies having a real day out at the tax payers expence, as we have to pay to clear up the mess and damage.

BRING BACK THE BIRCH.
BRING BACK A BORSTAL SYSTEM.

[waterhouse]

The economy has produced an environment where everything is available to those with money and nothing to those without. We celebrate the celebrity and the sportsman, pay them obscene amounts of money and watch them spend it with fascination, especially when they destroy relationships and their lives.

We love it when house prices rise because it makes us richer and therefore feel good.  But at the same time it impoverishes our children, those same children who leave school ill-equipped for the world.

We love the choices and prices offered by the supermarkets so the local shops can go to hell.  Except we can't afford to drive to the remaining shops, or to the schools or to the jobs.

That's what we've made out of our economy.  It excludes people, some of whom turn to drugs and crime while some get rich from drugs and crime.

I don't have any answers.  None of the politicians have answers (especially the Tea Party muppets).  If you want to know how truly screwed-up it is then consider that Sterling has become a safe haven currency.  That means the others are even worse...

So hang on to your smallholdings because they do and will make sense.

[tizaala]

Drag e'm off the streets, stick e'm in uniforms and send e'm to Afghanistan , why waste the lives of decent men when we could sacrifice these scum, mind you, they would probably join the taliban.

The worst problem now is the media coverage will only encourage idiots to follow the example.

[shetlandpaul]

the poor are better for the economy than the rich. cut there jobs or welfare and you end up with a deeper recession

What?  

Do you have a job?  Are you part of the guilty "rich" ?   Feeling guilty for working hard and having something to show for yourself?  Being poor doesn't bestow upon a person a higher level of value, morality etc.  Anymore than being well off.  But:

WERE YOU EVER HIRED BY A POOR PERSON?  



Amen tizaala!  Here too!!

the poor spend the money that they have. if reducing the amount of money that the lower classes have you reduce the amount of money being circulated. no being poor does not make a person any better that does having a large pile of cash. however i can tell you that the cuts will be aimed at the poorer sections of the community. take the UK all the cuts have affected the poorer worse. lets take EMA(education maintenance allowance) which was paid to encourage the worse off to stay at school. now it may seem simple to cut theses fringe benefits however if a child can't then afford to stay on at collage/school whats the betting it will cost a lot more to look after that person for their life( odds are that even if they get a job it will be lower paid) same with the change in higher education funding. its going to put poorer families off from sending there children to uni. yet what do a number of Tory minister want to do cut the tax on the rich( no guessing how many rich Tory ministers there are).

now we should have nationalised the banks at the first sign of there failure without pouring 100s of billions into them. if we had the country would not be in such a bad state.

how do I know what it like for all my childhood i was brought up in grinding poverty it does not help the child or family for the state to make it harder to raise themselves out of poverty. now thanks to the chances that we have taken and been offered my kids will all do higher education and hopefully never have the pleasure of seeing there mother struggling to even buy a loaf of bread.

the mega rich very rarely earned it by hard work. yes i do work self employed and we earn at least the national average.

the rioters are just criminals they just are using the opportunity to riot and steal. the police could have been more active. the nicked 200 in 3 days yet the Birmingham police have done 80+ in a few hours. what happened to the skills they used on the students and other protests. the lads have been watching sky news for hours and not once did we see a snatch squad nick anyone.

[robert waddell]

it is all good and well to comment on the what appears to be laid back approach by plod        the rioters outnumber the police and always will
you can not deploy the methods used to quell the north African riots in the forty's (photograph the ringleaders seek them out  eliminate them peace prevails until they can get reorganized and start again)
the student riots when the donkey lobed the extinguisher at the police   it did take time BUT they were apprehended in the end
once you are in that position that you have to think on the heal and your life depends on that decision   if you Carry guns in public even imitation ones then you have to suffer the consequences

[yankieGirl]

We Tea Party "muppets" (can I be one of the old guys that sit in the balcony of the set?!!  Wrong gender but it captures my overall attitude!) want to end ALL of the freebies across economic the strata.

FYI...there is no actual "Tea Party".  It is a grassroots movement.  No leader.  Just little pods of people meeting in library community rooms or private citizen's livingrooms.  There are a few subsets that are more organized.  However it is not, contrary to what the media portrays, a well funded puppet group comprised of unsuspecting red neck dopes clinging to our guns and Bibles (well maybe the last two items).

Both the Republicans and Democrats hate us and are terrified of the movement because to this point, it can't be controlled and it doesn't follow a party line.     


The main Tea Party message:  return to a fiscally responsible, constitutional republic.  WE ARE OUT OF $$$$$$!

[NormandyMary]

Between WW1 & WW2 we had 0 inflation, we were safe in the knowledge that the £ was on the Gold standard. for every £1 printed we knew the Bank of England had a piece of gold to cover it, the pound was strong.
We made stuff in this country , Heavy engineering, Textiles, etc. Then along came Harold Wilson in the sixties and lied to us about the pound being too strong so He devalued it. and so began the feast of Saint Rippoff.
The unions got too strong and demanded more money to make up the shortfall in their buying power.
 Dear Maggie Thatcher decided that greed was good and paper shuffling was the way to go, Banking and Insurance would keep us all in the lap of luxury, We lost our manufacturing base and the skilled workers that went with it. Thank F..k we did not join in with the Euro , this situation will get worse before it gets better.
The 'good' news is : we can still afford to give £Billions away to third world toilets so that their corrupt governments can buy arms for genecide instead of tools and food.
Catastrophy is just around the corner and we are rushing headlong to meet it.
such a sad end for a once mighty country. ...come back Queen Victoria , all is forgiven.

Hear hear. PLUS.....in the good old days, youngsters respected the police and respected their elders. These days many parents live in fear of their offspring. I think that water cannons should be used, but the water should be doctored, to have florescent dye put in AND itching powder. If the little ba**ards are busy scratching themselves, they wont be able to loot.

[jaykay]

The main problem the police have is a lack of clear public mandate. If they are decisive and fierce with rioters they are hauled through enquiries, if they stand back they are criticised for doing nothing.

As for shooting people - it's very easy, sitting in our kitchens, to criticise trigger-happy marksmen but I wonder how many of us have been in the noise and confusion of armed situations and had a split second to decide whether we were going to die or shoot. I haven't - but I've listened to my hubby and his colleagues who have. They're not blasé about shooting but say it's all very well after the event finding out a gun or bomb was fake or whatever, but you don't know that at the time. If you wait, you might die. Hubby (and his police dog  ) have medals for bravely facing and dealing just this situation - they had no gun that time but the criminal did.

The several generations of workless bother me a great deal. I wish we had some sort of system where you had to do community work in return for your 'community wage' ie benefits. There is so much road mending, painting of schools and houses etc. etc. that is needed and it would be so much better for people than sitting about either feeling useless or finding the wrong things to do. Maybe two levels of benefits, minimal if you don't do community work, enhanced if you do.

[deniseg4]

i think most of us are in agreement that the current economical situation in this country is hitting the poorer classes the hardest.  I work full time, earning around the national average, but my salary seems to be spreading thinner and thinner on a monthly basis.  I have no idea how low income families are surviving.  As well as the impact to personal finances, the impact on the community is starkly apparent.  In North Ayrshire, we have closed many of the public buildings, and many more have been given a reprieve for 1 year, as have the local libraries, something I find appalling.  Several local galas and fetes have either been down scaled or had council money completely withdrawn.  These may seem like a small thing, but they are incredibly important for keeping community spirit.  As we live in a small rural community, there is little to entertain the young people in the area, so cutting that even further will just result in more of them getting into trouble.  Long gone are the days when kids would entertain them by disappearing into the countryside to chase rabbits or make tree houses, unfortunately they now go armed with a couple of bottles of buckie and a can of petrol to start a "bonfire"

You want to talk about why rioting is breaking out?  As far as I can see (and this is purely my opinion) it has nothing to do with economy on the face of it, but if you look at the root cause economy and class are inflaming an old wound.  You can't possibly tell me that a high percentage of those rioters give a damn who was shot, its purely an opportunity to fight back at society with the only thing they know - violence.