[James1]

Hello, I thought I'd put up a question regarding Mouflon and soay. Has anybody ever done any studies to see how closely Soay are related to wild Mouflon like DNA and what have you? When I see pictures of Soay rams with large mains white saddle patches and big wide horns I do think they must be fairly close? Or is it possible some soay have had Mouflon blood added in more recent times?
JR

[Fleecewife]

There is DNA research out there James1, but you'd need to search for them in scientific papers.  If I remember correctly, there is evidence of three ancient sheep types in all domesticated sheep, including Soay. 
What do you mean by 'white saddle patches'?

[James1]

Thanku fleecewife, I mean like the white patches you see on the side of the body, like a wild mouflon. I have some pictures but not sure how to post them on here??

[Fleecewife]

I googled wild mouflons.  I see what you mean but I've never seen pure Soay with those patches.  They have pale underneath, and the teardrops at their eyes, in the mouflon colouring.  You can also get allover white, allover black and allover brown, plus various proportions of white with black or brown random patches.  Do you have a link to Soay pics with those markings?

I've just looked at these pics, many of which are of feral Soay on St Kilda, and I can't see any at all with the pattern you mention.  I'm wondering if it's Soay x mouflons you have seen?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=soay+sheep+on+St+Kilda+images&rlz=1C1ASUM_enGB714GB714&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzos7fm_rUAhUIK8AKHdOxBa8Q7AkIQA&biw=1280&bih=591#imgrc=jU0CB7ciDik3QM:

[James1]

Registered Soay

[James1]

Unregistered Soay

[Fleecewife]

Hi James
Are these in North America?

[James1]

Hi , no the registered one was for sale on the RBST website but I was to slow in responding to the add. The unregistered one was for sale in Shropshire. I know if they were in the US you'd say they were American Soay!!
JR

[kanisha]

I don't recognise those as soay but as some kind of a cross. agreed that without knowing the provence i would have put them as  from the US.
The second one could have age greying comming in it would be interesting to have had a pic of the animal as a lamb.

[in the hills]

I'd have thought a cross too.

Difficult to tell from photos but these look more 'solid' /,thicker set than Soay that I've seen.

Also not seen a saddle marking in Soay.

[Fleecewife]

Also those manes are way thicker and more pronounced than even the hunkiest Soay.  The horns are light for a Soay tup, and the face narrower and longer.


Were I contemplating such a tup I would want to study its pedigree or history very closely, and preferably see its parents or other flock members.  Registered doesn't guarantee pure bred.

[kanisha]

am I right in thinking that the RBST keeps a flock book that includes some US bred animals...?Who are resiedent in the US would they appear on  the RBST listing?

[in the hills]

Are US bred Soay different in appearance to UK animals?

Just looked at a couple of American sites but they look much the same to me.

[kanisha]

No I agree they should look the same as UK soay that was the point of maintaining them on the registry to ensure they weren't subject to the same outcrossing that has occured with the "american soay" notably barbados blackbelly but presumably some mouflon as well . But if some were registered ( accidental matings  between american and RBST soay  ) then that may be an explanation for how they appear to be RBST (uk)  registered animal.

explanation to be found here http://openflockbook.com/heritage.shtml
 

[Fleecewife]

Thank you Kanisha - the link is fascinating, and may well explain the pictures James1 posted.  To be sure we would need to know the registered tup's flock name at least.


I wonder which breeds have been used in the development of the American Soay, and whether or not there is some Big Horn in there.


Ah, I've just looked at some Big Horn images, and none has the white saddle patches......