[RUSTYME]

as for trade .. well as many people have said, we buy far more from Europe than we sell , since the closing of our manufacturing base .
 Yes we can sell to Europe , but we also sell to other parts of the world too.
 Also if Europe was to sanction our goods , we would sanction theirs ..and think what that would do to BMW , Mercedes , etc etc ..
 The fact is Europe needs us far more than we need them .
However, we do NOT NEED to be in the EU . We traded perfectly well before the EU , and could easily do so again . But now they tell us that we must be in the EU to exist ? crap.
 Truth is we do not need to sell to Europe , by all accounts over 90% of our trade goes to outside the EU , a fact that they never seem to mention for some reason.
 At the moment EU membership costs the UK  £57 billion . That amount is set to rise by a huge amount . The exact figures are hard to come by , because the government won't tell us . But it is believed to be 30%-50% more ....That would mean every single person of the 60 million in the UK would be paying £1300-£1500 a year to stay in the EU .
 Do the sums folks ..... not everyone of the 60 million in the UK are of working age !!! so all the others have to make up for that . Taxes are going to go through the roof soon , vat is one of the first to go up .
 The EU is going to cripple the UK . The leaders of the EU said they were going to end the UK's leadership of trade and industry ..job done !! and then they would end the UK control of the money markets , job in progress.
 Our police force is  to be replaced by Europol , job in progress , and the same with our armed forces , once again job in progress. Our diplomatic core is now secondary to any EU diplomats .  
 The EU is systematically pulling the UK apart , and we are letting them do it .
 I had uncles die in WW2 , fighting to keep the UK  free . If I were able to speak to them now , I could not look them in the eye and explain why, we have let our country be given away and taken over and ruled by the very people they were fighting .
I feel ashamed that myself and my generation have allowed this to happen .  

Russ
  

[juliag]

As duncan valentine would say............ I'm out!!

[Wizard]

and I'm with you Russ but as I have said them as matter are getting the cream.I wonder if they have thought will they when we are of no importance.I am not as such a violent man,but I do believe if I am bare handed I won't attack a foe armed with a sword.If I have a sword I won't attack a man with a gun.Like wise if I control a nuclear bomb,there are few (say 1) that will consider attacking me.Some of these Middle Eastern Groups are unpredictable .But if you are defenceless?

[Hilarysmum]

Im for Stay.  But then I live over here. 

[WinslowPorker]

Im for out!! our strongest asset is that we are an island and should be self sufficient and cut them loose, can you imagine what would of happened thanks to the Greeks if we were in the Euro?

[Norfolk Newby]

Looking at the EU as something 'over there' makes you think that we are outside this Europe thing. I am old and biased . My dad was badly wounded in the last European war and that makes a good reason to have one fairly united Europe rather than face more local fighting.

I have benefited from several jobs in Belgium and the Netherlands so I can see good things there as well.

I worked in Brussels for a while and found it scary the way the European Commission works so slooowwwly. Any topic gets studied, dissected, re-assembled, reviewed, analysed and assessed. Then a consultant is hired and the whole process repeated! After a year, it's time for new budgets and start again! The administration is enormous.

Also, we (the British) take all the EU directives very literally and make them into laws. Other countries either ignore their laws or write them in such a vague way as to make them unenforceable (IMHO). This means that directives on the size of fruit or straitness of bananas (whatever) don't have much if any impact.

While in Brussels, I met several Europeans who thought the British had let the side down by not joining the Euro. They thought we were selfish in keeping the Pound. They saw the Euro as a strong currency to resist the Dollar taking over. That was back in 2000 so perhaps their thoughts are different now. I wonder if were in the Euro back then whether places like Greece would have been allowed to join the Euro when they did? Places like Romania and Bulgaria haven't (been allowed to) join yet and won't until they get their economies sorted out.

The French like to keep their farmers well supported. France is twice the size of the UK but with a similar population so this is a big deal for them. I think some re-organisation of the payment scheme is needed but we seem to need to support farming in some way to keep the land properly used and managed so it is not something to ignore.

It's a funny old world but I like this (European) part of it and think the EU has enough good bits to want to stay inside it.

NN

[oink]

Firstly, a united europe doesn't try to kill eack other, it's the greatest experiment for peace there has ever been.

Secondly, my main reason for liking the EU is freedom of movement.  Big (and small) companies all round the world operate with freedom of capital, however if the people are ordered to stay in one place there is only one winner...the companies.  They move around the world only employing the cheapest labour but with freedom of movement wages all over the poorest countries will rise as people will chase the jobs and wage inequality will stabilise ( I realise all the UKIP supporters are now up in arms ;, sorry I agree with immigration!)).  Just look at the unification of Germany - the people in west Germany weren't too happy to pull the east Germans up the economic ladder but it was the fair and decent thing to do.  Plus united Germany is far more powerful because of it.

I agree that if we only worry about  ourselves then, in the short term, we may be better off.  However as china, india, brazil and russia start flexing their muscles, which will only happen more and more frequently, the UK on its own becomes more and more irrelevant.  An EU working together is the only thing that stands a chance to break America's laissez faire economic model and stand up to the emerging countries.  I'm not saying the EU WILL work but I feel we have to try.

Let the attacks on my views commence, but please be polite

Just to help the people who disagree with me here's some ammo - I agree with peoples 'right to roam' in the countryside AND all over the planet.  It's one world and we shouldn't be told where we can and can't go!

You might say I'm a dreamer...

[Wizard]

Oink and you think our nonexistant car industry is going to overtake VW and Merc to say nothing off BMW.Overtake the far east.They will sell here You think we will be selling there in your dreams.  Oh I cannot bother There is NOWT in it for Britain and that includes Scotland Annie love even less for me and thee

[Helencus]

Sorry not convinced I hate the fact weve been landed with the economic migrants I see too many young folk in my rural community including my son fighting for hours at the local factory there are hundreds round here because of the factory and local people can't get work. Nope I'm still in the L camp and nothing said so far changes things for me but interesting to hear others views so thanks.

[RUSTYME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho

the film explains why we are in the EU and why our so called government hasn't taken us out ....
 
If you stop the film when the first list of people attending the Bilderburge meeting , you will see the names of Ed Balls and Kenneth Clark ....
 The film also explains why the UK is being invaded by foreigners ....


cheers

Russ

[Wizard]

I say Russ with a Schools Secretary like him what do you expect?

[sheila]

All the reasons given for staying in are still valid if we were out. I don't mind the migrant workers coming but if they don't work and pay taxes then we shouldn't subsidise them.

[doganjo]

All the reasons given for staying in are still valid if we were out. I don't mind the migrant workers coming but if they don't work and pay taxes then we shouldn't subsidise them.

I'll second that!

[Helencus]

I agree with the second part of that re paying taxes but given we now no longer have much in the way of industry there isn't enough work around in some areas particularly to sustain the influx. Now I know there are British folks who live on benefits by choice rather than necessity (and that's a whole new topic for heated debate) or folks who won't take min wage work but the number coming in to work out weighs this and means those that do can't. BTW the agency my son works for makes a higher profit from giving a polish person hours than giving the Brit.. So guess who gets most of the work...
 

[Wizard]

What do you second annie love?