Author Topic: The EU  (Read 24025 times)

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: The EU
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2010, 11:21:41 am »
Snoopy wots the benifits to the man in the street please :farmer:
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

Snoopy

  • Joined Aug 2009
Re: The EU
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2010, 05:35:47 pm »
This is an outline of some of the benefits that the UK have had from being part of the European Union without taking it on board fully.

Google Benefits of the E.U. and Wikipedia for more detailed information - it deals with statistics on lots of subjects within a large subject.

All people have their own views - most british people are negative -thats their choice.  If they cannot see the advantages, then they should
vote to leave the European Union.

I don't really care either way what the UK do, I am happy to be a European Citizen and can see the benefits from my views of life etc.  Its up to
you to decide what is best for your country.

Remember, there are positives and negatives of everything - so you have to be prepared to put some effort in to understand the whole picture.  As for the man on the street, well
I would imagine he will be negative to any change and any type of new thinking - its easier not to change or look at another way of doing things - thats why the world is in such a mess!



The Advantages of Being a Part of the European Union

Membership of the Single Market:
The Single Market of the EU has meant that companies going about their
business in EU member states have been forced to lower the prices of
their products to become more competitive.

The single market benefits companies by making it easier & cheaper to
do business in other EU countries. No customs tax is charged on goods
that are sold or transported between member states. The EU also tries
to make each market as similar as possible to ensure fair competition
across national borders.

Free Movement of Citizens:
European citizens have the freedom to live, work, study, and travel in
any other EU country. Since 1995 alone, about 100,000 young Britons
have spent time studying in another European country.

More Jobs:
It is estimated the 3.5 million British jobs are dependent on
Britain's membership of the EU. (Source: UK Jobs Dependent on the EU,
Brian Ardy, Iain Begg and Dermot Hodson, European Institute, South
Bank University)

Money for Development:
The EU is working to develop ?deprived? regions of Europe. Such areas
might for example have high numbers of people unemployed, or be rural
areas without many facilities, like good roads. This development is
carried out using 'European Structural Funds'.

The UK has been allocated a total of ?15.5billion (?10bn) of European
Structural Funds for 2000 - 2006. Over the same period, the UK has
also been allocated ?120 million (?80m) for Fisheries Guidance and
?961 million (?595m) for Community Initiatives.

A Louder International Voice:
By working together in the EU member countries can ensure their
concerns are heard, and taken more seriously, on the international
stage. When the EU speaks it represents about 400 million people
(this will be 500m after enlargement). This is more than the combined
population of the United States & Russia. Margaret Thatcher has said:
?On our own, as a nation of 55 million, we would have some voice, but
not enough."

Greater Protection for Workers:
The European Working Time Directive is an EU initiative designed to
protect workers from exploitation by employers.

The directive lays down regulations on matters such as how many breaks
an employee can take, and how many holidays they are entitled to each
year. It also aims to limit the average time an employee can be
compelled to work to 48 hours a week.

Greater Equality and Social Inclusion:
The EU has done a lot of work to raise the standard of equality for
its citizens. Through EU directives citizens are protected from
employment discrimination on the basis of gender, sexual orientation,
religion or belief, disability and age.

Protection of the Environment:
The Environment knows no border and so the only effective way to
tackle environmental pollution is through international co-operation
and action. Britain has cleaner water, cleaner air and cleaner
beaches because of action at the EU level

Greater Co-operation in Law Enforcement:
EU co-operation is helping to crack down on terrorism, drug
trafficking and organised crime.
Living the Good Life and spreading the word

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: The EU
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2010, 05:50:38 pm »
And you don't see (nor list)the disadvantages, Julie?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Helencus

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • NW Leicestershire
Re: The EU
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2010, 06:42:38 pm »
In response to the comment about us getting off the fence agreed. Let's get off the fence and out of the EU. At least let's have the right to vote and allow all of us the opportunity to decide.

Helencus

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • NW Leicestershire
Re: The EU
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2010, 07:03:52 pm »
My last word on this topic. I won't cut and paste the disadvantages of the EU for the Uk here we can all do google searches, there's many disadvantages too. I am the man in the street and I am in no way either too lazy to take the time to become informed nor am I frightened of change. I am a testing manager by day my livelihood is made from implementing change projects.
I just do not believe on balance that the EU benefits out weigh the disadvantages IMHO. I'm entitled to think that it doesn't mean I'm I'll informed or change phobic just that I disagree. I did ask people for their view on what they thought the benefits were in their view and that's prompted some great debate so thanks everyone for that but I am leaving this subject here now.   :)

Jackie 2

  • Joined May 2010
  • North Killingholme
Re: The EU
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2010, 07:45:20 pm »
Im for 'L' too  :)

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: The EU
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2010, 09:03:07 pm »
My word snoopy you do have a vivid imagiation .Your first four line answers ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I've had enough :farmer:
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: The EU
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2010, 10:51:20 pm »
Disadvantages
1. The instability of the system.
Throughout most of the 1980s the UK refused to join the ERM (Exchange rate mechanism). It argued that it would be impossible to maintain exchange rate stability within the ERM, especially in the early 1980s when the pound was a petro-currency and when the UK inflation rate was consistently above that of Germany. When the UK joined the ERM in 1990 there had been three years of relative currency stability in Europe and it looked as though the system had become relatively robust. The events of Sept. 1992, when the UK and Italy were forced to leave the system, showed that the system was much less robust than had been thought.
2. Over estimation of Trade benefits.
Some economists argue that the trade and cost advantages of EMU have been grossly over estimated. There is little to be gained from moving from the present system which has some stability built into it, to the rigidities which EMU would bring.
3. Loss of Sovereignty.
On the political side, it is argued that an independent central bank is undemocratic. Governments must be able to control the actions of the central banks because Governments have been democratically elected by the people, whereas an independent central bank would be controlled by a non elected body. Moreover, there would be a considerable loss of sovereignty. Power would be transferred from London to Brussels. This would be highly undesirable because national governments would lose the ability to control policy. It would be one more step down the road towards a Europe where Brussels was akin to Westminster and Westminster akin to a local authority.
4. Deflationary tendencies.
Perhaps the most important economic argument relates to the deflationary tendencies within the system. In the 1980s and 90's France succeeded in reducing her inflation rates to German levels, but at the cost of higher unemployment, For the UK, it can be argued, that membership of the ERM between 1990 and 1992 prolonged unnecessarily the recessional period. This is because the adjustment mechanism acts rather like that of the gold standard. Higher inflation in one ERM country means that it is likely to generate current account deficits and put downward pressure on its currency. To reduce the deficit and reduce inflation, the country has to deflate its economy. In the UK, it could be argued that the battle to bring down inflation had been won by the time the UK joined the ERM in 1990. However, the UK joined at too high an exchange rate. It was too high because the UK was still running a large current account deficit at an exchange rate of around 3 Dm to the pound. The UK government then spent the next two years defending the value of the pound in the ERM with interest rates which were too high to allow the economy to recover. Many forecasts predicted that, had the UK not left the ERM in Sept 1992, inflation in the UK in 1993 would have been negative (ie prices would have fallen).The economic cost of this would have been continued unemployment at 3million and a stagnant economy. When the UK did leave the ERM and it rapidly cut interest rates from 10% to five and a half %, there was strong economic growth and the current account position improved, but there was an inflation cost.

Another problem that the early 1990s highlighted was that the needs of one part of Europe can have a negative impact on the rest of Europe. In the early 1990s, the Germans struggled with the economic consequences of German reunification. There was a large increase in spending in Germany with a consequent rise in inflation. The Bundesbank responded by raising German interest rates. As a result, there was an upward pressure on the DM as speculative money was attracted into Germany. Germansy's ERM partners were then forced to raise their interst rates to defend their currencies. However, higher interest rates forced most of Europe into recession in 1992 - 1993. Countries such as France couldn't then get out of recession by cutting interest rates because this would have put damaging strains on the ERM. The overall result was that Europe suffered a recession because of local reunification problems in Germany. Critics of the ERM and EMU argue that this could be repeated frequently if EMU were ever to be achieved. Local economies would suffer economic shocks because of policies, forced on them, designed to meet the problems of other parts of Europe.
One way around this would be to have large transfers of money from region to region when a local area experienced a recession, e.g. N. Ireland which suffered structural unemployment for most of the post war period, has had its economy propped up by large transfers of resources from richer areas of the UK with lower unemployment. However, regional transfers are very small at the moment unfortunately. Moreover to approximate the regional transfers which occur at the moment in, say, Britain, there would have to be a huge transfer of expenditures from national governments to Brussels - just what anti Europeans are opposed to. Ref: library.thinkquest.org
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Old Empty Barn

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: The EU
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2010, 11:00:45 pm »
Snoopy, ........ Just a little bit insulting to label anyone as negative if they're not fooled by all the EU like some are ! ......... maybe you could take the time to explain to us closed minded negative people how democratic the EU is ........... you live in a country that was made to vote again on the Lisbon treaty because they voted wrongly the first time ! .............. at least you got a vote !

Dave

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: The EU
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2010, 07:45:14 am »
Thanks Annie love Thanks Dave You know how long it would take me to hunt all those letters in your post Annie.Phew ah aimm sweatin thinking abart it ;D :farmer: :wave:
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

Snoopy

  • Joined Aug 2009
Re: The EU
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2010, 03:29:39 pm »
AHHEM  Excuse me, but I was asked for the benefits to the man on the street.

Looking at this post, and past ones we have had regarding the UK taking on the Euro, it would not be wrong to see the UK as negative on this point.

I would have thought, as the Scottish have already taken their Government and Bank currency from England. Sovereignity would not be an issue.

The only people whom seem to agree here are the usually open minded tas members, as I have said I do not care what the UK do - I am happy.

You ALL can google!  Some disadvantages in everything as I have stated in my post.


I suppose you all voted for your British Troops to be commanded by the Americans too?   

 I suppose Bush was right to get Blair to target Afganistan??  Did you vote on that?

You may think that you have a vote, but truthfully, no matter who you vote for, they will make decisions you do not like - rather than have the problems with
the other European countries that our relatives had to fight over in WW1 and WW2, surely a United Europe is a way forward.



NO - Thats ok - as I say, I am happy

 ::) :o ???
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 04:04:37 pm by Snoopy »
Living the Good Life and spreading the word

Snoopy

  • Joined Aug 2009
Re: The EU
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2010, 03:54:25 pm »
Snoopy, ........ Just a little bit insulting to label anyone as negative if they're not fooled by all the EU like some are ! ......... maybe you could take the time to explain to us closed minded negative people how democratic the EU is ........... you live in a country that was made to vote again on the Lisbon treaty because they voted wrongly the first time ! .............. at least you got a vote !

Dave

Hello Dave - Yes, you are quite correct - I VOTED NO both times, most of my Irish neighbours were told by their respective MP's to VOTE YES - as it is not going to go away.!!!!!

Some people are too scared to stand and be counted more than once it would seem.
YES this was a very un-democratic decision for the then French President to make us vote again in order to give the answer HE desired - and he did get away with it.

But I did get a vote, the Irish Constitution does make sure that the Irish People will always have a vote, hopefully in the future our first answer will be accepted.

If a Government want to do something - they will change the goalposts and boundaries of constituencies and counties to get there way - its all been seen before

At least I know what I am dealing with, and we all will see disadvantages - and corruption - and we still have to vote them in or " accept what is".
Thats the way it is. :o

« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 04:05:41 pm by Snoopy »
Living the Good Life and spreading the word

Old Empty Barn

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: The EU
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2010, 11:00:27 pm »
Snoopy, the point I'm trying to make is that just because others on here don't share your enthusiasm for the EU it doesn't make us negative ......... maybe, just maybe we're clever enough to see when something is a great big Con engineered to benefit the political elite .......... and paid for by us Bloody Mugs !!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7754100/The-euro-crisis-is-a-judgment-on-the-great-lie-of-Europe.html

Helencus

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • NW Leicestershire
Re: The EU
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2010, 12:40:31 am »
I wasn't going to comment again but oh well.. Snoopy the point here I feel is that regardless of whether people support the EU or not this post was a forum to discuss. We've done that but I feel branding people either too lazy to bother to become informed, frightened of change and too negative to see the benefits you see is a tad insulting. Thankfully we all live in countries where we have the freedom to express our views.. Let's all do it without insulting others whose view differs from our own please.

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: The EU
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2010, 07:29:50 am »
I don't reckon to argue with you Helen but I think snoopy is being bloody insulting.IS Snoopy of German extraction I wonder.Great Britain won the 2nd World  War but my GOD and I am an atheist they have won the Peace ??? ::) :o ??? :farmer:
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

 

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