[shotblastuk]

For the life of me I can't understand why we have over 60 breeds of sheep in this country (some declining rapidly) and people still want to stock sheep breeds from further a field. Can anybody please enlighten me as to the benefits excluding the 'novelty factor' ?? 
My pennies worth would be;
If we are going to promote British meat/agriculture surely we have to use British breeds.
All opinions welcome !!

[Marches Farmer]

We have breeds developed over many centuries to suit every type of land, grazing, shelter and weather that the British Isles can throw at them, from the good grazing and mild Winters of the SW to the windswept seaweed eaters of the northern islands.  Breeds go in popularity cycles and at the moment it's big-framed Continentals that finish quickly provided you throw enough feed at them for the big commercial farms, attracting the big money and big headlines.   Because they've been bred for many generations for big frames and fast finishing they lose out on other traits.  I've only recently found out about Texel Throat, for example, although it's common knowledge among farm animal vets  - not something the breed society shouts about.

[Me]

Foreign sheep, coming over here eating our grass....

[Me]

I suppose, because the British farmer has so royally ruined British breeds. For generations a good shepherd has been the one that can hide/compensate/correct best for his animals failings rather than a shepherd who remembers the failing and breeds to remove it.

See the Suffolk sheep. With its giant head, huge lower legs and shoulders and total will to lie on the floor at birth. A massive animal which wants to finish at 55kg - expensively. This is why I imported Charmoise and explains why they are becoming popular (I wont bore you, but they are the anti-suffolk)

[Anke]

Simple - money and EU farming policies....

[shotblastuk]

Foreign sheep, coming over here eating our grass....

I'm not suggesting a racist slant here!!! 

[waterbuffalofarmer]

For me the only non British breeds I would buy are the milking breeds, such as the awassi, Assaf, friesland and lacaune. The dorpors, as on a previous thread, fascinated me but i would never buy them as they belong to the middle eastern countries, as they were bred for the middle east. I suppose its the exotic attraction, the money, or maybe I should have said money first and the other qualities they can bring to sheep keepers. It could also be to conserve the breeds, that is why some people export them, the rbst have done that with breeds of pigs.

[Me]

Why do you want a milk sheep wbf - thought you had Lleyns?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I'm keeping the lleyns for meat and showing, but would like a couple of milking sheep, hopefully in time to build up a small milking flock aside the lleyns. I want to experiment making products with my own sheeps milk and hopefully in a few years set up another range of products alongside the buffalo milk products, but in a few years, in the meantime its practise makes perfect

[Me]

Oooooo very good

[pharnorth]

I'm enjoying my newly established Coloured Ryelands flock and yes part of the which breed decision was to be a native breed.  But 'we have to'. No thanks 'we' don't have to anything, it is all about choice and anyway most of our native breeds have crossed with main land European breeds and some time in their dark history. As long as we keep enough, and strong enough blood lines each to their own.

[Tim W]

I look at this a little bit differently----i'm not thinking '' I will get that breed because it's better/different'' rather I am asking ''where can I find this trait to improve what I already have in my sheep''

So for wool shedding I went to the Wiltshire horn because it has the best shedding ability I have found
For a hair coat and parasite resistance you look to the pure hair sheep breeds (BBB /Damara/Katahadin  )
For growth you go to the Texel/Charolais
For milk the Lacuane
For easy of lambing and thrift one of the hill breeds

Then you have to find the animals within these breeds that have the traits that you want because there is plenty of variation out there----for example I have maternal wool shedding maternal rams whose offspring grow faster than some Texel rams (done the comparisons on 200 ewe flocks)

all the above is a convoluted way of saying horses for courses 

[Marches Farmer]

I look at this a little bit differently----i'm not thinking '' I will get that breed because it's better/different'' rather I am asking ''where can I find this trait to improve what I already have in my sheep''

within these breeds that have the traits that you want because there is plenty of variation out there----for example I have maternal wool shedding maternal rams whose offspring grow faster than some Texel rams (done the comparisons on 200 ewe flocks)

Isn't this how the stratification system works, though?  Not with all the traits you mention but milky hill ewe with good mothering ability crossed with a milky twin-producing BFL to give a long carcase and finished with, say,  a Down breed o improvethe shape of the carcase and give the ability to finish off grass ....  I take the point about the modern Suffolk but if you can find a non-show strain they take some beating.

[Talana]

Most breeding ewes are made up of native breeds and their crosses, put to suffolk or continental sire to produce fat lambs off grass. In upland areas blackface cheviot herdwick swaledale etc. are required for that environment they are often put to leicester tups to produce the popular mule for lowland flocks. Llyen are also popular I think taken over from the shetland cheviot. In a commercial situation lambs have to away fat at their target weight of 43 -45 kg liveweight to kill out at 21 kg deadweight asap. With 21 kg deadweight and good grades give you the maximum price paid. I If you let lambs get too fat and grow heavier  you are losing money at the slaughter house as they penalize you heavily price wise- fined and don't pay over 23kg. We have a mix of cross bred ewes- mules llyens mule x texel or llyen and cheviot crosses and one ryeland. They are put to suffolk and charollais tups born march /april the lambs start going away fat off mothers milk and grass only end june July Aug Sept, now in Oct we have a only a few stragglers left. They are on young grass just now but as that goes we will start to feed them lamb finisher. This year we have found that the charollais lambs did better than the suffolks as we had to buy new tups this year we bought only charollais to add to our other char. tup. I agree the suffolk breeders have gone doolally with them breeding far to big heads and legs.As there is a liitle texel through some of our ewes using a texel tup would''nt work with us again too big heads being bred.  Native breeds are useful and those that create markets for a premium product are doing well to keep the breed alive it is important to keep these going as well you never know market forces change it has happened before and it starting to happen in cattle. Britain is so diverse in landscape and you need the right breed for the right area. Native breeds unfortunately don't finish quickly enough with the right grades and need a market of their own for the lovely quality's that they have. Not everyone can have a farm shop and market their produce to a niche market ,so we are at the mercy of the supermarkets. Prices are loss making this year here's hope for next year.

[Porterlauren]

See. . . . . the argument could easily be made the other way!

Someone suggested that people only get 'foreign' breeds to be novel and different, rather than a practical reason.

I'd disagree and suggest that many smallholders get 'native' breeds to be novel and different, rather than a practical reason.

So many of our native breeds have been ruined by the show fraternity, and the gene pools of useful commercial animals are very small.

Most people use continentals etc, because they suit their system i.e. they provide most profit etc.