[Marches Farmer]

I.E the value of grazing land in an area gets skewed when some people offer daft rents. . . . but that can take the form of a smallholder offering £150 an acre for 4 acres to graze their few sheep, to the large scale dairy farmer offering the same silly money because he is propped up by the subs.

As for knowledge and experiance . . . . ive met plenty of farmers who have been farming for years and in fact generations. . . . and who would be buggered if the subs were pulled and they hadnt inherited the family farm! Their system is outdated, inefficient and close minded.

I own a grand total of 3.5 acres. . . . and run around 200 ewes, going up by another 100 this year, and aiming to be running something like 600 in the next three years and hopefully 1000 in the next five years. Quite possibly that makes me a farmer? Except I dont live on a farm, I dont own a tractor, and I have another job.

I know of no farmer, dairy or otherwise, who wants to be "propped up by the subs".  Cost of production + enough to get by on and invest in better housing and good breeding stock would do almost all just fine.  However, the Government seems to think the population must have cheap food and subsidises production.  If it didn't do so imported food would soar and food security would plummet.

Are you planning to make a profit from your 1000 ewes in five years' time, or will you keep the other job?

[Womble]

Also possibly, if you are topping your pasture with a ride-on mower, then you're a smallholder

What if you're topping your pasture WITHOUT a ride-on mower then? 

[Rosemary]

Also possibly, if you are topping your pasture with a ride-on mower, then you're a smallholder

What if you're topping your pasture WITHOUT a ride-on mower then? 

Peasant 

[Womble]

 

[devonlady]

I guess it's the terminology - I find the term "hobby farmer" incredibly derogatory.

Rosemary, I apologise for any offence. I certainly don't class you and Dan as hobby farmers!! Rather as "proper" smallholders, working hard to make a living.

[Porterlauren]

I.E the value of grazing land in an area gets skewed when some people offer daft rents. . . . but that can take the form of a smallholder offering £150 an acre for 4 acres to graze their few sheep, to the large scale dairy farmer offering the same silly money because he is propped up by the subs.

As for knowledge and experiance . . . . ive met plenty of farmers who have been farming for years and in fact generations. . . . and who would be buggered if the subs were pulled and they hadnt inherited the family farm! Their system is outdated, inefficient and close minded.

I own a grand total of 3.5 acres. . . . and run around 200 ewes, going up by another 100 this year, and aiming to be running something like 600 in the next three years and hopefully 1000 in the next five years. Quite possibly that makes me a farmer? Except I dont live on a farm, I dont own a tractor, and I have another job.

I know of no farmer, dairy or otherwise, who wants to be "propped up by the subs".  Cost of production + enough to get by on and invest in better housing and good breeding stock would do almost all just fine.  However, the Government seems to think the population must have cheap food and subsidises production.  If it didn't do so imported food would soar and food security would plummet.

Are you planning to make a profit from your 1000 ewes in five years' time, or will you keep the other job?

I wasn't suggesting that any farmer wants to be propped up by subs. . . . however our current system and the supermarket cartels ensure that this is so. I was merely highlighting that both small holders and 'proper farmers' can be subsidising the cost of what they produce by other means, and hence skewing the picture.

As for the sheep. . . i hope so. I currently make an acceptable profit on the ones I currently run. As for another job. . . . . the system that I run and its narrow focus, means that I have quite a lot of time, which would be wasted sitting about. So currently I work with kids doing outdoor education and some counselling, do some lecturing and also some contract shepherding. I like being busy.

[devonlady]

Having been brought up in farming, though not taking a too active interest in it (being a female) I did absorb a few things. Then, being a smallholder for many years ( the holding was very much a part of our economy) and now being a hobbyist with my pet sows, few Jacob sheep and diverse poultry, none of which need justify their existence, I hope I can see the discussion from all sides.
And I've come to this conclusion..............does it  ffffff really matter?!!!! We are all doing what gives us pleasure (well, most of the time) 
I would also like to say how good to have this kind of discussion without tears and tantrums, insults and aggression, this would not happen on any other forum I'd bet

[Kimbo]

I expect that my husband and I are at the bottom of the pecking order on all your definitions so feel free to pour scorn on us.
We certainly do ask our farming neighbours for advice and help with jobs we don't have the equipment for, but we value their advice, we pay the rate they ask for  and we pay immediately that the bill is presented, unlike some of their fellow farmers. Our neighbours say that they appreciate that we are improving our land, which had been neglected for decades; yes, they may be bullshitting us to keep our custom but they don't strike me as that duplicitous.
They  also say that they are impressed by the care we give to our animals, even though they think we are mad to hand feed our few sheep digestive biscuits    We only do that ( after avidly reading people's tips on here actually) so that they are now tame and we are better able to care for their welfare. So what if it worked for us and was a means to a very desirable end? Of course the "farmer" couldn't do that with 300 sheep but aren't we both just tailoring our methods for the better care of our animals?
Seems to me then that farmers, hobby farmers, smallholders , good lifers are all really shades of the same breed of person....... people who care about land, the countryside and animals who choose to make those things an integral part of their daily lives. What a shame then that instead of supporting each other we are looking to score points against the "others"

[Kimbo]

sorry Devonlady, my post crossed with yours. X

[Rosemary]

Is there an official definition?
Can a smallholding make enough income to keep itself afloat with minimal need for external incomes?
What needs to be looked out for in terms of pitfalls and problems

Not sure how we got from OP to four pages on. I guess what matters is that folk with land look after it - after all, we only steward it for the future - and that we look after any livestock, regardless of the reason we keep them. Whether it's 1000 acres and 1000 sheep or 1 acre and 10 chooks. And show some respect, kindness and tolerance to our fellow humans 

[Backinwellies]

Having been brought up in farming, though not taking a too active interest in it (being a female)

..


... time to take offence  over something other than 'hobby farming' tag ..............   why would' being a female' have any influence on whether you take an active interest?  ............  my brother took no real interest (though did farm work at weekends whilst at school) .......where as I have spent my whole adult life (about 35 years) with a total active interest 

[Buttermilk]

Having been brought up in farming, though not taking a too active interest in it (being a female)

..


... time to take offence  over something other than 'hobby farming' tag ..............   why would' being a female' have any influence on whether you take an active interest?  ............  my brother took no real interest (though did farm work at weekends whilst at school) .......where as I have spent my whole adult life (about 35 years) with a total active interest

My father in law was firmly of the opinion that the female members of the family lived in the house, possibly tending a flower bed but no more. When I milked the cows I got the blame if any developed mastitis within the following month.  My sister in law did not even know there was a red cow in the dairy herd she got outside so infrequently.

[devonlady]

Having been brought up in farming, though not taking a too active interest in it (being a female)

..


... time to take offence  over something other than 'hobby farming' tag ..............   why would' being a female' have any influence on whether you take an active interest?  ............  my brother took no real interest (though did farm work at weekends whilst at school) .......where as I have spent my whole adult life (about 35 years) with a total active interest

I was the youngest of eight children (apart from my twin who is a couple of hours younger) and we girls were expected to help out at busy times but otherwise it was the boys who were expected to "learn the trade"
The only one of my brothers who was keen was persuaded that there was no future  nor fortune in farming in Britain and, to his eternal regret studied engineering instead.
And to my everlasting regret, our beloved childhood home was sold to a developer

[adrian007]

I believe the definition of a smallholding is less than 50 acres, but the classification of a farm, for subsidy purposes is 5 hectares and upwards (sorry to mix imperial with metric, I'm 47 so fluent in both). There's a big crossover.

I feel it would be quite hard to make a decent profit without either really substantial infrastructure - like the guys with 2 acres of glasshouse, or without adding value to the products. Or, I guess niche products, like ones that don't suit mass production.

On the other hand, if you have the marketing skills, the cooking skills and/or husbandry skills and and/or growing skills I have no doubt you can make a very decent living from a smallholding.

Marketing skills - you have to be able to get people to buy your stuff. The other skills because you have to be able to get them to buy your stuff more than once!

I also don't feel you need to wait until 'you know everything' before you start running courses (I don't run courses). You only need to know what you are going to teach, plus a bit of a margin either side. Doesn't matter if you picked that up in 6 months or 6 years.

Consider it from the other direction. You have a lifetime of skills and knowledge. You decide to run a course. Someone comes, you teach them for a weekend. What do they know? About the amount of stuff they could learn in a weekend.



 



 

[sabrina]

I think even some farmers have trouble making a living these days. Most smallholders raise meat and chickens but do not have enough land to grow crops to feed the animals they have. Its a way of life but most have other jobs too.