[nutterly_uts]

Is there an official definition?
Can a smallholding make enough income to keep itself afloat with minimal need for external incomes?
What needs to be looked out for in terms of pitfalls and problems

[Rosemary]

I don't think so (unlike a crofter). In Scotland, you are eligible to apply for the Small Farm Grant if you farm between 3ha and 30ha, which I suppose is something.

Our smallholding is probably making a small revenue surplus now (after we've ploughed in quite a lot of personal finance to equipment and assets and not including the cost of purchasing the property). But it's not enough of a surplus for us to live on. We have 12 acres and another 10 seasonal grazing.

The guy we buy our hay from has 47 acres but his wife works part-time as a pharmacist and they also run a small haulage business from the farm - you may read what you will into that.

The Soil Association commissioned a report a few years ago into whether a living could be made from 10 acres - I'm sure you'll find it if you google it. Basically the answer was a tentative yes, but those businesses that did had no capital borrowing, used family labour, were high value crops like filed vegetables and salad crops and the owners had very simple lifestyles.

[nutterly_uts]

Thanks things to consider there.

The land that might be in the cards is 50-100 acres

[Thyme]

One of my very Welsh farmer neighbours likes to say "Ah, you're a real farmer now!" to me whenever I do something like buy a tractor or a cow.  I replied "Oh surely you have to make money to be a real farmer?" and he said "Oh no, if anything the opposite!" 

[Porterlauren]

I think a farm is technically anything above 12 acres. Not sure why that number is in my head, some kind of legal thing.

As for farmer vs smallholder. . . . id say its a very broad spectrum. . . . . . .

I consider myself a farmer, with say 200 ewes and a dozen pigs and other bits and bobs. My friend with 1400 probably thinks i'm a small holder. We both do other work as well.

Its probably in the attitude. Who knows.

[Rosemary]

I think a farm is technically anything above 12 acres. Not sure why that number is in my head, some kind of legal thing.

I'd be interested to know about the 12 acres. I haven't heard that before.

[pharnorth]

Maybe it's the smaller acreage and the diversity (of animals and crops). In my 13 acres I have goats, sheep, horses, ducks, chickens, pigs so 5/13= 0.38 species per acre.   Can't be bothered to work it out but there is probably a version of this formula that creates a pivot point from smallholding to farm at the right level.

Alternatively, a more philosophical answer is based on why it matters. If it does not matter if it is a smallholding or a farm then there is no difference. Legally I imagine it is all about how involved the EU want to get chasing compliance on tiny units rather than focussing environmental and food chain enforcement on bigger units.  Lifestyle wise it is more about reliance on market forces, commercial vs lifestyle choices, scale Vs diversity.

[hughesy]

Well it used to be that a smallholding was simply a small holding, ie a small farm. These days it's become something else. I never refer to myself as a smallholder because to many it implies someone who is playing at being a farmer. They have an example of every type of livestock, try to grow every crop imaginable and expect their neighbouring farmers to drop everything and help them in exchange for half a dozen eggs. They've no real need to make it pay as they've either downsized from the city or have a nice pension to live on. Lifestyle is everything and in no way can whatever they're doing be classed as a business, especially as far as the taxman is concerned, however once they've been doing it for 12 months they feel qualified to dispense advice on pretty much anything to those who aspire to follow.

[devonlady]

I think of these people as "hobby farmers" rather than smallholders. I would class a smallholder as someone working damned hard to make a few acres pay it's way and put food on the table plus pay a few of the bills.
A farmer on the other hand works damned hard to make a lot of acres pay, put food on their table and a whole lot of other peoples plus pay the bills and have a  bit of cash in the bank!

[Small Plot Big Ideas]

I think a farm is technically anything above 12 acres. Not sure why that number is in my head, some kind of legal thing.

I'd be interested to know about the 12 acres. I haven't heard that before.

Is this related to the minimum holding size required for subsidy payments which I think is (or was) 12.5 acres (i.e. 5 hectares)?

[hughesy]

A few years ago I used to work for an agri supplies place. One of the managers there used to say "bloody farmers, can't get any money out of them. Give me some smallholders, they'll buy anything!"

[Backinwellies]

Is this related to the minimum holding size required for subsidy payments which I think is (or was) 12.5 acres (i.e. 5 hectares)?

5 hectares .... of actual farmed land .......... excludes woods, tracks, brush and anything else they can subtract!

[Marches Farmer]

Well it used to be that a smallholding was simply a small holding, ie a small farm. These days it's become something else. I never refer to myself as a smallholder because to many it implies someone who is playing at being a farmer. They have an example of every type of livestock, try to grow every crop imaginable and expect their neighbouring farmers to drop everything and help them in exchange for half a dozen eggs. They've no real need to make it pay as they've either downsized from the city or have a nice pension to live on. Lifestyle is everything and in no way can whatever they're doing be classed as a business, especially as far as the taxman is concerned, however once they've been doing it for 12 months they feel qualified to dispense advice on pretty much anything to those who aspire to follow.

You've met some of our neighbours then!  Every farmer I know says "you never stop learning at this game."  Just think of how many 20,000 bird chicken sheds you could get on 12 acres - would that still be classed as a smallholding, I wonder?

[Rosemary]

Well it used to be that a smallholding was simply a small holding, ie a small farm. These days it's become something else. I never refer to myself as a smallholder because to many it implies someone who is playing at being a farmer. They have an example of every type of livestock, try to grow every crop imaginable and expect their neighbouring farmers to drop everything and help them in exchange for half a dozen eggs. They've no real need to make it pay as they've either downsized from the city or have a nice pension to live on. Lifestyle is everything and in no way can whatever they're doing be classed as a business, especially as far as the taxman is concerned, however once they've been doing it for 12 months they feel qualified to dispense advice on pretty much anything to those who aspire to follow.

I find this rather insulting, given the title of our website.

[pgkevet]

I think you'ld have to look away from conventio to make a decent living on a small farm like my own. I call myself a hobby farmer because I bought it to enjoy rather than any commercial incentive but I did choose it carefully.
There's a total 54 acres of which some 8 acres is woodland on steepish slopes.. perhaps fenced one could chuck some pigs in there but catching them might be a challenge. There's another 14/15 acres that's too steep for easy tractor work but of that about 6 acres faces south and could be used for grapes and managed by quadbike well enough.
Then there's a 10 acres field that is sheltered and north facing  where my few pet sheep stay but could support a  decent flock with some bought in winter feed or rasing lambs for the summer. that leaves about 25 acres of good deep flat soil which is hay meadow at the moment .. a lovely mix of wild flowers and grasses..albeit with some weed species encroaching of late. Ploughed that could be used for say fodder maize one year or other suitable crops.. but if talking about making some more serious money and having a market then perhaps soemthng like a blackcurrants or blueberries to diversify or more vines. That leaves some 3 acres of curtilage which plannig can't stop on covering half with polytunnels abeit it gets a bit more complicated when the polytunnels are commercial rather than personal.

But that sort of approach is hugely labour intensive with a longish period before payback..soay 4-5 yars for a vineyard, less for massive asparagus patches or quicker for artichokes. 30yrs ago i;d have had the enegry and enthusiasm for it but not the finances. 25 to 30 acres of vines is something like 15000-20000 vines - perhaps 40,000 bottles of wine.

Certainly worked that way you get to a  potential good gross income and then you have the cost of the property and initial startups and equipment and ongoing costs.

Back as a lad i worked for a small holder one summer. On his 4 acres he kept a few pigs, about an acre of broad beans then a follow-on crop and a strawberry bed. He had a couple of acres of greenhouses for early lettuce and follow -on tomatoes and it kept himself and his wife comfortable of no wealthy: there's a lot of lettuce in 2 acrs fo glasshouse...