[Hellybee]

thats just wrong isnt it, whats wrong with putting a bridle on piece by piece if necessary, not holding it down, isnt that going to cause even more fright ?

[Daisys Mum]

A few years ago I was given an ex-racehorse, and for months the only way that I could get her bridle on was by putting it on piece by piece, eventually I could put it on in one piece.

[storm35]

I used to do parelli with my horse, but since watching a few other dvds i have kind of went right of it now, soem of the things its not called for.

[juliag]

Stuck for words on what I have just read about the bridling incident, cant they see that it is just plain wrong?!!
 My daughter gave me a book for my birthday titled Horses Never lie by Mark rashid. This is following natural horsemanship methods in the art of passive leadership and I was amazed when I read this book. In my opinion it is so right, he mentions the ''other'' so called natural horsemanship methods ie parelli although does not actually mention it by name but basically points out in his book why it is so wrong.
 If you look at your horses as a herd, which I then did as a result of reading this  you have a dominant male in each herd. This in our case is Harvey a 7 yr old 14.2 who rules through aggression. He is the boss and chases the others off piles of hay etc. He is obviously the dominant male and the others are all very wary of him moving away as soon as he approaches etc. Then he suggests you look for the horse that the herd will try to follow naturally, generally a quiet one but one that the others want to be with, that they choose to spend their time with. This in our case is Kanga, he has a calm authority and although he tends to stay in the background and avoids any confrontation with Harvey at all costs he is the pony that the others resect and choose to be with. Mark Rashid then puts the question to you, do you want to be the aggressive leader as in Harvey, pushing the ponies away and making them wary of you or would you rather be the Kangas of this world. The leader that is calm and gentle , the one which the horses themselves choose to be with. look at your 'herd' and take time to think about each horses place in it. It is an eyeopener, a fantastic book and to be prooves why Parelli is so very very wrong.

[daniellestocks]

i like the sound of that book, mite have to have a read 

[Pony-n-trap]

Just watched to vid on youtube and will be honest, havent read all the posts to this thread so my comment is about the video.

Just what was she trying to do?  I think she should consider herself lucky that he didnt stand up on his back legs and wave at her with his front feet before giving her a well deserved pat on the head with both of them.

She looked cruel and hideous, there was no method or thinking in what she was doing, no obvious reason as to why either.

If that was my horse I would have stopped her and told her to take a long walk off a short pier.

I find with my horses that quietly and slowly working through a problem will usually sort it, by working them and keeping them busy also helps, by letting them realise that by the way you work with them, YOU are the boss not them.  A well worked horse is a chilled and happy horse, one that will do your bidding happier and quicker when also treated with RESPECT.

WHERE was the respect in that video, even the pat she gave was like an assault on him.

Poor thing, its probably ruined now.

[juliag]

OMG The bloody woman is at it again, watch this if you dare and then the parelli supporters on here can then explain to the rest of us how this is supposed to be helping the poor horse and in what way this can be called Natural horsemanship. It is abuse , no other word for it.
http://www.barnmice.com/video/linda-parelli-shows-how-to

[faith0504]

that woman wants someone to flap there elbows in her face and smack her nose with a whip ( bloody hard )

[gavo]

What is that meant to achieve?

[doganjo]

Yes, it was defended the last time. Can it be defended again?

[knightquest]

I don't know anything about horses. In truth they scare me but in that clip the lady just looked mean and the horse or pony or whatever confused and bullied.
I take the point that they are prey animals and I think that this is fortunate because a predator would have eaten both women by the end of that session.

Calm and assertive wins every time against cool and aggressive in my mind.

Sorry for getting involved in a horsey thread as a non horsey person.

Ian

[Samantha]

OMG The bloody woman is at it again, watch this if you dare and then the parelli supporters on here can then explain to the rest of us how this is supposed to be helping the poor horse and in what way this can be called Natural horsemanship. It is abuse , no other word for it.
http://www.barnmice.com/video/linda-parelli-shows-how-to

Dear GOD! WTF!!! I only got as far as the title before my mouth dropped open ... you never "HIT" a horse ... don't get me wrong here I have bopped my arab on the nose one when she went for an apple and bit my arm instead (which really really hurt lol) but that little tap on the nose (to indicate the area that had done wrong) a few quite stern words (in a tone that conveyed displeasure), followed by a short period of about 5-10 mins being completely ignored (the consequence of the action) was all it took she knew she had done wrong and she has never done it again. I work with my horses and each horse is individual, and have individual motivations,

Correct me if I am wrong here but from the video's that I have seen (so far, and not that I want to see many more lol) I have not seen the rewards for doing things right .. nor have I seen her explaining to the horse what she actually wants from it... in the first video at the start of this post she was yanking and tugging that rein all over the place but I didn't actually see the reason why she was doing it? wtf was the horse doing wrong exactly lol... it seemed to be more reacting to what she was doing than playing up in the first place ... if my horses do something wrong I make a noise at them… its a short sharp hiss sort of sound and they have come to learn that when I make this noise I am displeased with them. Any noise will do as long as you are consistent with it and use it each time in the same tone and manner. I find using the hiss (which sounds more like Tiss) works because it is not a sound they usually encounter and so directs their focus back on me instantly (well usually) lol.
Ok I’m going to stop ranting… I will never remotely consider using parelli … there is nothing natural about yanking, whipping and hitting a horse, this woman should be locked up in the looney house if she thinks what she is doing is natural.

[Rosemary]

Yes, it was defended the last time. Can it be defended again?

What do you think?

[doganjo]

Yes, it was defended the last time. Can it be defended again?

What do you think?

I think not.  I'm not a horsey person  either inasmuch as I don't have one, but I cannot ever see why you should/need hit any animal.  With dogs, treating with aggression creates further aggression. I know dogs are different being predator rather than prey animals, but is this really what Parelli is about?  Surely not?  What you showed me with Smokey bears no resemblance to these videos. What do you yourself think of these clips, Rosemary?  Has someone doctored them and put them up on youtube to discredit the system do you think?

[wellies]

Hi guys,
I have just found this thread and found it interesting to read. I am certainly no expert in this area and hope no one takes offense as I am sure many people have different ways of approaching their horse training and have great success. My issue with some of the methods demonstrated in the video is the lack of robust evidence based sustainable training. Many of the behaviours we aim to eradicate are merely conflict behaviours as often our signals are not sufficiently timed or maybe continuous and therefore confusing to the horse. For example if we fail to remove the pressure of bit as the horse slows the response becomes dull and therefore the horse becomes acclimatised to the pressure as it will be there regardless. In essence successful horse training is the application of either negative or positive reinforcement at an appropriate and correctly timed interval. There is lots of research going on at the moment looking into the learning behaviour of horses and the physiological and behavioural responses to contemporary training techniques. A couple of books have come out recently and look at these issues providing interesting discussion on the subject. Paul McGreevy and Andrew McLean have produced some excellent papers on the issues discussed in this thread and may be worth a look if this is an area you are interested in