[Hellybee]

Im not very good with words unlik the some of you on here, all i know is that i like my ponies to be ponies, and that means allowing thm to express themselves freely with th minimum of pressure, simple but firm handling for a young age and thm wanting to be in my compay not cos they are made to but because they want to.

I had a leaving party from them when i left them on the headland yesterday, that shows to me how much thy value as a member of the herd.   They aslo greet me when i approach them in the field, that for me is a bond and all i ask of them is to respect me which they do because of the handling they had when young.

We all want the best of our horses, and it s a very emotive thing when someone says what they do is wrong.  But i tryly believe that the video that i saw was not to my liking and was tking things too far.

Rosemary you obviously know your onions and take from Parelli what suits you and your horse and good for you  but its not for me, i just cant impose what they preach on my animals. 

Aengus, you say everything really tht i can t put into words,  can i borrow your brain please :

[Rosemary]

You wonder why Parelli students feel embattled? Honestly? 

I felt pretty embattled yesterday, believe me. When people are condemning a programme that can help people and horses without ACTUALLY having any experience of it themselves and based on a few minutes of out of context video clip posted by people with a chip as big as a house - some of the comments on YouTube were outrageous but Dan banned me from responding. And there is an awful lot of good in the programme. It focusses on the relationship - which should always be put first. It encourages the study and understanding of horse behaviour, of listening to your horse and accepting the feedback that he gives you, it provides information and support in a way that's not done anywhere else, it gives a focus for horse owners who may not have access to trainers who will work in a natural way.

Yes, there are poor practitioners - some folk get so focussed on the seven games that they never move on. They don't grasp the fact that the games are a foundation- a means to an end not an end in themselves - they're in the programme for the STUDENT not the horse - he learned them at his dam's side. All he needs to know is that YOU know them and understand how they work in horseland.

There is so much good in it and yet for some reason, people dismiss it at best or decry it. I know it seems a bit "cultish" and it's very American - that being the biggest market after all - and I think that gets folks backs up. I don't think we Brits like the colonials telling us how to do things 

Even if it gets people to think about what they do, how they act around their horses and why, then it must be positive. There are so many people who don't listen to their horses - catch them, slap the saddle on, kick to go, pull to whoa - and never hear any of the feedback that their horse is giving, until something goes way wrong then it's the horse's fault despite the fact that the animal has been "saying" something for ages.

Steve, I am so looking forward to working with you when we move up (or maybe before on trailers) - I promise I won't try to brainwash you!  I'm happy (and grateful) to learn from lots of people  even if it's what NOT to do.

[doganjo]

Well said Rosemary, there are so many different' methods' of training animals out there both in this country and abroad that the best anyone can do is to pick out the bits of each to suit themselves and their own animals.  If I have learned little over the years at the very least I have learned that.   Training fads come in and out of fashion too, particularly 'over the pond'  I have a friend over there who bought a puppy from me who is a horse whisperer and travels all over the States to help people with problems.  Steve says he learns knew ways and ideas all the time, and that very few people can actually be classed as 'experts' in any field in his view.  A person never stops learning right up to the day they leave this earth.  We all have our own 'pet' views and ther is nothing wrong with that.  What IS wrong is to force our own opinions on others and I apologise if that is what I did, it was not my intention.

[Hardfeather]

There has been uproar on many horse forums about this.

Here is the official response, from Parelli, to protests...

"The team at Parelli understands the questions that this video might
prompt and we appreciate your request for our response. The Parelli
training method encourages principles of love, language and leadership
in equal doses. In this particular video clip, Linda Parelli is
demonstrating a dose of leadership in a rare but dangerous situation.
As reinforced in the full video, love and language are very prevalent
as well. We included this clip in our educational materials to teach
horse lovers how to handle potentially dangerous situations by keeping the horse safe and calm in the face of what he finds fearful. Safety is our number one priority, and the Parelli program relies on understanding horse
behavior to incorporate the best strategies for managing these
behaviors and achieving success.

We are committed to improving horse-human relationships. Parelli is
dedicated to the humanity, dignity, safety and respect of horses and
of people. It should be noted that the owner of this particular horse
remains a fan of the Parelli method and has utilized the principles of
the Parelli method to establish a successful,rewarding relationship
with this horse."

And this is from their training blurb...

....'When your horse barges into you or runs over you, he normally evokes one of two reactions on your part: fear or offense. Most people respond to aggressive horse behavior with the instinctive reaction of a big, hard jerk on the halter. Frustratingly though, that approach doesn't work.'

... goes on to say the following

"Roughly jerking on the halter isn’t advised with a fearful or dominant horse. It just makes both situations worse."

[Hellybee]

Just to add the horse in question definatly only had one eye.

[Hardfeather]

 

[Rosemary]

This might be of interest. Dave Stuart was a 5* Parelli Instructor before he went off to do his own thing.

 

[lazybee]

I am a great believer in the right of every individual to make his/her opinion known, and to be respected for the courage of their convictions.

Whether we agree or not is not the issue here. I have my opinions on Parelli horsemanship, and I have seen enough horses ruined by misinterpretation and overuse of carrot sticks and ropes to be able to have formed those opinions.

Don't ask me why, but almost every Parelli person I've met has a holier than thou attitude to their chosen brand of horsemanship, and many are positively blind to any faults which may be pointed out to them. Most of them are very keen to do down any alternative suggestions to parts of their program with which they, and their horses, are obviously having difficulty. The words 'evangelical' and 'cultish' are often associated with the word 'Parelli'. It's as if the practitioners feel they are in an embattled position....I'm not sure why that may be.

Although much of Parelli training smacks of circus tricks, there are some aspects of it which I do see as positive, but I form my opinions on the way the horse performs. Lots of Parelli-trained horses remind me of clockwork toys.....you wind them and they do the same thing over and over, without emotion, and with precision. I like my horses to enjoy what they do, and to want to be with me because they love me, not because they know what the alternatives are.

I cast no aspertion on your personal choices, and you may well be one of the few who are able to read between the lines of the Parelli doctrine, and think on your feet on meeting problems.

I didn't know you practiced. I simply thought it would be an interesting topic and that people should see for themselves how the top bod in the organisation treats horses.

I have to say I totally agree especially the holier than thou comment. I see most of the methods as little more than a gimicks and a bit of showmanship. What is sooo wrong with conventional methods? why do so many people look for alteratives? it's the same with medicine Know your horse, apply common sense.......simples. If people can't read or understand horses they perhaps shouldn't have them. I joined this discussion a bit late, I know but it's my tu'pence worth

[juliag]

Well not sure what Parelli enthusiasts would have made of my little Irish pony this afternoon, Spring was in the air and as the fields have dried out my daughter popped up some jumps for a bit of fun. However you could see a glint in his eye as he stood stock still for her to mount. He went from halt to canter at the slightest touch of her leg (impressive I thought even if he wasnt supposed to be quite so eager) cantering up the hedgeline he then mock spooked at a couple of jump wings in the hedge  and with a shy and a buck took off being a total prat, She did pull him up pretty much immediatley and almost crying with laughter said 'did you see that'. well he is 20 this year!! So I am very pleased to see him feeling so well.
In my opinion not naughty, its spring and he was having fun, not dangerous he pulled up straight away, This pony has taken my girls showjumping all over the country competing in BSJA at Hickstead, he has qualified for HOYS with 2 of my daughters, a fantastic experience for them both. He has taken them both eventing (when we bought him he was an FEI event pony and on the British Team). He is now semi retired but try telling him that!! My ponies compete for my girls because THEY love it! The ponies are competitive, they have an edge to them that Pirelli would knock out of them. The Children learn to ride the ponies, I would never try to change our ponies way of going, my children have had to learn to ride them and then they build up a partnership.
They do not dominate the ponies , they compete very much as a team, a partnership and that to my mind is how I want my horses to be, partners.
 

[Hellybee]

Awww bless him, would love to see a piccie of that is possible, he sounds a right character and as you say they feel it in the air, the joys of spring eh, i love it

[juliag]

       

The Girls have a you tube channel (gratton girls) which if you go onto you tube it will bring up all their videos, all set to music.
The above channel is of Kanga (the little dun pony mentioned above) and Harvey a coloured pony that katie has had since 3 yrs old and broken and schooled herself. She is very proud of her ponies so please watch. Harveys journey is particulally fantastic as it shows him from being a baby with her to competing at BSJA successfully. Its a bit long but the music when she jumps indoors fits the video exactly, I dont know how she does it. There are others on there of Maddy , katies younger sister, she has a very special pony called jolly who is adorable and a real little schoolmistress. Have a look and let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5shtpuZyI8A                          harvey and kanga with katie riding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2npYFKuXys                         Tilly is my youngest daughter and is very frightened of ponies so this was incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zj5zBSTRLM                         Harveys journey, quite long but an exceptional video which shows the bond between
                                                                                           katie and her ponies.
  lots more videos on the channel including me being terrified on a ferris sheel in Edinburgh. 

[juliag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t28jgPwMTk

Love the above one as well although you may have to copy and paste it, its harvey august bicton. The hug at the end is because she is in floods of tears. Everything went right that week and they won 6 out of 8 classes entered. As I said this is her baby pony who was classed as a delinquent! All he needed was time. once again the music she has chosen to go with this video says it all ............In my dreams you make me feel 40 stories tall......we are untouchable.

[Rosemary]

I'm glad your kids have so much fun with your ponies and that the ponies enjoy themselves. But that wouldn't be for every horse lover. I agree that horses snould be partners with their people - which is exactly what the natural horsemanship principles are, including Parelli. Using NH techniques woudl not "knock" the spark out of them.

Lazybee, people aren't BORN able to read or undetsand horses - they have to learb. Some are lucky enough to be born into horsey families (or not lucky maybe) and some aren't. Those that aren't and eventually manage to get a horse of their own are on a learning curve - that doesn't make them second class people or horse owners - theu just have to learn.

Watched one of our "traditional" people rdining today in a gag and flash noseband, with the horse overbent. I could hear it at the other side of the yard - poor bloody horse couldn't breathe. But hey, it's not parelli, so it must be OK.

[juliag]

No I do agree my girls ponies wouldnt be for everyone, but with that in mine I know my limits and I personally would buy a pony with a temprement that I could ride, for instance somebody put some photos of some Fell ponies and they were just beautiful and you know they would have the temprement to match. Horses for courses but an inexperienced rider should not buy an inexperienced horse which I am sure you will agree with and should be looking for temprement all the time. Once again I would buy something for myself very placid and would not go anywhere near (for myself) anything of quality breeding as I no longer have the nerve to ride them myself and would certainly not expect the horse to change its temprement to suit me. 

[Roxy]

I have had ponies for many years, and we break them to ride and drive ourselves.  I do admit that the Pirelli is of no interest to me, but I respect other people who may want to use it.  Some years ago,  a lady who did Pirelli asked if she could take my then three year old Dales pony in a round pen.  Pony at that time was unbroken, but well handled.  Molly was very hesitant at first, but within 10 minutes, that lady had Molly cantering round, trotting, following her round, and doing all sorts of things, without a headcollor or rope.   I have to say I was impressed with her handling of Molly.