[langdon]

 what is your choice when it comes to worming?
  langdon

[ballingall]

I have had some discussions on this topic with someone I know on the scottish goatkeepers forum http://scottishgoats.forumotion.net/scottish-goats-f1/worm-control-chemical-natural-or-what-t14.htm

What I would say is, don't rely solely on either one or the other. I know someone who swears by using garlic alone to worm her goats, and I can tell you by one look at her goats that it doesn't work. If you want to go natural, then make sure you get a worm count done every so often.


Beth

[langdon]

GARLICK? i can onlt imagine what the poor goat looks like.
interesting to see that you say dont rely on one or the other(did i read that right)
do they build up resistance when using one or the other for too long?
the last time i wormed the girls it was panacur.
have you ever used this one.
ta langdon
p.s, did i say me and beth talking bout geting a billy for the girls.
will keep you informed

[ballingall]

Yes they can build up a resistance, which is why its important to not over worm with chemical treatments as well. There are only really 3 types of chemical wormer, so it means if they build up a resistance to one kind (and I don't mean one brand, I mean one type) you only have 2 other ones to try! We have used Panacur, and do still still sometimes use it. 

Noticed what you said about a billy- consider it carefully, and I would go and visit someone who has an adult one before you actually take the plunge and get one. Have you considered where you will keep him for instance?

Beth

[Roxy]

I use Panacur for the horses, so usually when I worm the small pony have some left towards the goats worming.  Just a matter of working out how much of the packet to give them.  My vet told me to use Panacur as it worked out cheaper than buying the sheep wormer.  But now I have so many, maybe not!!

Also use Verm x for the pet sheep, goats and llama.

The lady I bought one of my ponies from uses Verm x, and she also uses garlic in the horses feeds.  She had a worm count just before Folly came to us, and it came back showing she had very little or no worms, so not sure if thats down to the garlic or the verm x!!!

[ballingall]

Mhmm- I hadn't heard of using Verm-X on sheep or goats until recently, but from what I've heard, it'd be quite good.


Beth

[Roxy]

I did grumble at the price of the verm x, but its a big tub of granules.  And its so easy to use, just sprinkle on the food.  Thinking about it, when I work out how much the horse wormer is per tube, around a tenner each, I suppose the verm x is not bad value.

I am not a lover of the chemical based ones, although I do use them for the horses.  Like I said, my friend swears by verm x, and all her ponies look very well.  She does have regular worm checks, but has never had any problems with worms in her horses.

[langdon]

we have a tidy area behind where the chucks are it needs new fencing and what have you.
over all its spacious and nice for a billy.
we have talked about going to a stud first to get some advice or help.
the reason why we thought of this is that: 1 we would like one
                                                          2 cost on stud fees over the years and travel exp.
one thing we were talking about was, is it best to have a billy thats disbudded?
what ever your thoughts are on these things please share as we do want to do our homework first.
ta langdon  

[Roxy]

If you only have a couple of nannies, I would not keep an entire billy, but use a stud one.  Believe me, the amount of feed and haylage Paddy can get through over the winter, I could have paid a few stud fees!!  Remember, if you keep any nanny kids, you will then have to find another billy for them ......so your entire billy would be sitting there doing nothing once he had served your two females.  An expensive commodity!!

He would need his own area away from the nannies, and they can be strong, and wreck things when in a strop (or thats just how they are in general)  And the smell which we have discussed before.

Use a stud billy the first time and see how things go ......you may decide a billy is not a good idea then.  As to horns, well, traditionally you see Billies with big horns, and both mine had them but that was not my choice.  Personally, I would prefer de horned goats, its safer for the other goats, and for the humans dealing with them.

Visit someone with a stud billy, and you will get the real picture on what its like.  My opinion is keeping intact billies is not for everyone, and you need to be experienced in goat keeping before getting one (not that I am suggesting you are not, its just better to know what you are doing in general before deliving further into it by keeping an entire billy is what I mean!)

I have entire other animals, and its not just goats, they all need very firm handling.

[langdon]

just read the article bout worming, very very interesting.
thanks for posting it to me. any more articles that you think might be
of benefit to me i would really appreciate you sending them on
what did you think of growing plants that may benefit the health of goats?
something i myself am going to look into.
again beth thanks. this forum is like an online tutior!!
langdon

[langdon]

thanks roxy, good food for thought, dont worry about offending me! i need all the help and advice i can get.
didnt think they would go through so much hay and what have you.
also the point about having to get a new billy to mate the future nannies, i never thought of that either.
mmmmmmh will think it over again, beth also suggested about going to a stud just to see what it is like,
when two people say the same thing you better pay attention!!

[Anke]

And there is a third person saying exactly the same thing! No way that it would be economical to keep a billy (+some companion wether!) for only two females. Going to stud also gives you the choice of males, crossbreeding, improving milk yields etc etc etc., using a meat billy if you do not want to keep the offspring for future milking.

Think about what you want your goats (and their kids) for, then decide on billy.

Also you should probably have had goats for a few years before you would be experienced enough for a billy, I certainly have seen them being handled when I took mine to stud (to two different places, one was a 100mile drive each way, but it was the best and closest choice! for purebreed billy). And I will not keep a billy for the foreseeable future!

Anke.

[Roxy]

My two castrated billy goats, Cain and Abel have a really long hay rack in their shelter.  I fill that in the morning before work, half fill it early afternoon, and fill it again at night.  The llama sometimes joins in as well, but Cain and Abel eat the haylage that is left each time, and would probably eat more!!!  I have big bales for the horses, but if they were on small bale hay they would cost a fortune on hay alone!!!

[ballingall]

What breed do you have again Anke?

I have to say Langdon, I do agree with the others. Making the decision to take on a male goat should not be taken lightly by anyone. In just 2 years, you need an unrelated male to mate to his daughters, and he will eat you out of house and home (mine certainly does, and he weighs 23 1/2 stone). Also, you need to decide what breed you would get, and what you will do with the offspring.


As to horns, out of choice I would never have a horned goat, let alone a male. Even if they do not mean to hurt you they can do accidently. My father had his cheekbone broken (by accident- he leant over the billy to pick up a food bowl, and the billy wondered what he was doing and lifted his head sharply) and it very nearly could have been his eye. I know someone who keeps old English, and I wince when I see her 3 daughters under the age of six running around with these half wild goat kids with little sharp pointy horns.... A accident waiting to happen.

Beth

[Roxy]

My pygmy goats have horns, not very big horns, but they still hurt if they catch you.  Even when they are just running at each other at feed times, my leg usually bears the brunt.  In fact, I have bruises at this very minute down one side of my leg!!

I never bend down to remove the billy goats feeding bucket.  I usually push it away with my foot, because should he throw his head up, and catch me with those big horns I would be knocked out!!