The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: langdon on February 22, 2010, 09:08:43 pm
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what is your choice when it comes to worming?
:goat: langdon
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I have had some discussions on this topic with someone I know on the scottish goatkeepers forum http://scottishgoats.forumotion.net/scottish-goats-f1/worm-control-chemical-natural-or-what-t14.htm (http://scottishgoats.forumotion.net/scottish-goats-f1/worm-control-chemical-natural-or-what-t14.htm)
What I would say is, don't rely solely on either one or the other. I know someone who swears by using garlic alone to worm her goats, and I can tell you by one look at her goats that it doesn't work. If you want to go natural, then make sure you get a worm count done every so often.
Beth
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GARLICK? i can onlt imagine what the poor goat looks like.
interesting to see that you say dont rely on one or the other(did i read that right)
do they build up resistance when using one or the other for too long?
the last time i wormed the girls it was panacur.
have you ever used this one.
ta langdon :goat:
p.s, did i say me and beth talking bout geting a billy for the girls.
will keep you informed ;)
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Yes they can build up a resistance, which is why its important to not over worm with chemical treatments as well. There are only really 3 types of chemical wormer, so it means if they build up a resistance to one kind (and I don't mean one brand, I mean one type) you only have 2 other ones to try! We have used Panacur, and do still still sometimes use it.
Noticed what you said about a billy- consider it carefully, and I would go and visit someone who has an adult one before you actually take the plunge and get one. Have you considered where you will keep him for instance?
Beth
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I use Panacur for the horses, so usually when I worm the small pony have some left towards the goats worming. Just a matter of working out how much of the packet to give them. My vet told me to use Panacur as it worked out cheaper than buying the sheep wormer. But now I have so many, maybe not!!
Also use Verm x for the pet sheep, goats and llama.
The lady I bought one of my ponies from uses Verm x, and she also uses garlic in the horses feeds. She had a worm count just before Folly came to us, and it came back showing she had very little or no worms, so not sure if thats down to the garlic or the verm x!!!
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Mhmm- I hadn't heard of using Verm-X on sheep or goats until recently, but from what I've heard, it'd be quite good.
Beth
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I did grumble at the price of the verm x, but its a big tub of granules. And its so easy to use, just sprinkle on the food. Thinking about it, when I work out how much the horse wormer is per tube, around a tenner each, I suppose the verm x is not bad value.
I am not a lover of the chemical based ones, although I do use them for the horses. Like I said, my friend swears by verm x, and all her ponies look very well. She does have regular worm checks, but has never had any problems with worms in her horses.
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we have a tidy area behind where the chucks are it needs new fencing and what have you.
over all its spacious and nice for a billy.
we have talked about going to a stud first to get some advice or help.
the reason why we thought of this is that: 1 we would like one
2 cost on stud fees over the years and travel exp.
one thing we were talking about was, is it best to have a billy thats disbudded?
what ever your thoughts are on these things please share as we do want to do our homework first.
ta langdon ;) :goat:
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If you only have a couple of nannies, I would not keep an entire billy, but use a stud one. Believe me, the amount of feed and haylage Paddy can get through over the winter, I could have paid a few stud fees!! Remember, if you keep any nanny kids, you will then have to find another billy for them ......so your entire billy would be sitting there doing nothing once he had served your two females. An expensive commodity!!
He would need his own area away from the nannies, and they can be strong, and wreck things when in a strop (or thats just how they are in general) And the smell which we have discussed before.
Use a stud billy the first time and see how things go ......you may decide a billy is not a good idea then. As to horns, well, traditionally you see Billies with big horns, and both mine had them but that was not my choice. Personally, I would prefer de horned goats, its safer for the other goats, and for the humans dealing with them.
Visit someone with a stud billy, and you will get the real picture on what its like. My opinion is keeping intact billies is not for everyone, and you need to be experienced in goat keeping before getting one (not that I am suggesting you are not, its just better to know what you are doing in general before deliving further into it by keeping an entire billy is what I mean!)
I have entire other animals, and its not just goats, they all need very firm handling.
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just read the article bout worming, very very interesting.
thanks for posting it to me. any more articles that you think might be
of benefit to me i would really appreciate you sending them on ;)
what did you think of growing plants that may benefit the health of goats?
something i myself am going to look into.
again beth thanks. this forum is like an online tutior!! :D
langdon :goat:
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thanks roxy, good food for thought, dont worry about offending me! i need all the help and advice i can get.
didnt think they would go through so much hay and what have you.
also the point about having to get a new billy to mate the future nannies, i never thought of that either.
mmmmmmh will think it over again, beth also suggested about going to a stud just to see what it is like,
when two people say the same thing you better pay attention!! ;) :goat:
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And there is a third person saying exactly the same thing! No way that it would be economical to keep a billy (+some companion wether!) for only two females. Going to stud also gives you the choice of males, crossbreeding, improving milk yields etc etc etc., using a meat billy if you do not want to keep the offspring for future milking.
Think about what you want your goats (and their kids) for, then decide on billy.
Also you should probably have had goats for a few years before you would be experienced enough for a billy, I certainly have seen them being handled when I took mine to stud (to two different places, one was a 100mile drive each way, but it was the best and closest choice! for purebreed billy). And I will not keep a billy for the foreseeable future!
Anke.
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My two castrated billy goats, Cain and Abel have a really long hay rack in their shelter. I fill that in the morning before work, half fill it early afternoon, and fill it again at night. The llama sometimes joins in as well, but Cain and Abel eat the haylage that is left each time, and would probably eat more!!! I have big bales for the horses, but if they were on small bale hay they would cost a fortune on hay alone!!!
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What breed do you have again Anke?
I have to say Langdon, I do agree with the others. Making the decision to take on a male goat should not be taken lightly by anyone. In just 2 years, you need an unrelated male to mate to his daughters, and he will eat you out of house and home (mine certainly does, and he weighs 23 1/2 stone). Also, you need to decide what breed you would get, and what you will do with the offspring.
As to horns, out of choice I would never have a horned goat, let alone a male. Even if they do not mean to hurt you they can do accidently. My father had his cheekbone broken (by accident- he leant over the billy to pick up a food bowl, and the billy wondered what he was doing and lifted his head sharply) and it very nearly could have been his eye. I know someone who keeps old English, and I wince when I see her 3 daughters under the age of six running around with these half wild goat kids with little sharp pointy horns.... A accident waiting to happen.
Beth
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My pygmy goats have horns, not very big horns, but they still hurt if they catch you. Even when they are just running at each other at feed times, my leg usually bears the brunt. In fact, I have bruises at this very minute down one side of my leg!!
I never bend down to remove the billy goats feeding bucket. I usually push it away with my foot, because should he throw his head up, and catch me with those big horns I would be knocked out!!
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To be fair Roxy, my mum's reaction was to call my dad an idiot and that it served him right for not walking round the goat! I think scratches and bruises come with being a smallholder/farmer though!
Beth
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roxy forgive for my ignorance but what do you mean by the
term entire ???
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Shall I tell him Roxy.The thing I am wondering is do you know what I am on about if I say the Entire is coming in the morning? :) :farmer:
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Sorry Langdon, with having an entire horse (stallion) I used that term, when in fact, in the goat world its intact, as in not castrated!!!
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Aw Roxy you've spoit my intended fun Am off to have a sulk now ;D ;D :farmer:
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sorry Wizard!! I did not want poor Langdon scanning his goat book frantically looking to see if it mentioned the word entire!! I tell you what, Langdon will be more knowledgeable than all of us, if he has managed to digest all the answers on goats we have given him. Perhaps we ought to set a little test to see how muc hhe has learnt about goats so far ;D
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Good idea Roxy how long shall we allow him and hes not having a multiple choice sheet either ;D ;D :farmer:
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BRING IT ON ;)
NO ESSAYS THO, WOULD APPRECIATE SOME MULTIPLIE CHOICE QUESTIONS IT WILL TAKE ME
AGES TO TYPE!
AAAHH IS THIS A HINT THAT IM ON ERE TO MUCH AND YOU GUYS WANA GET RID OF ME? MMMMMM ;)
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No ....of course we don't want to get rid of you!! We just want to make sure that we have been good teachers, thats all ;D
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Langdon WE are the people not the champions but we intend you to be a champion in the goat world :D :farmer:
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when do i start my training? ;D :goat:
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Soon as possible Langdon after I have convened a meet with the big 4 ;D ;D ;D :farmer:
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lol i'll be waiting! ;)
:goat:
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Beth, have two GGs, one in kid the other one is last years kid, and have also a BT type goatling. If she has female offspring I can register them in BT section, someone else has bred her up so far.
My GGs have come from Muircock flock in Cumbria and the BT girl is Balafark Skyee, she has been mated to Lochinvar Inverghost. Not sure about showing them, plan is maybe the young stock.
Trying to initially keep the GG pure bred, but quite keen to grade up to BGs, might as well start early as it will take a few years...
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Oh lovely. I think the Muircock herd was started by Chris Bennett who lived up here, as I recall when she gave up she let the person who got the goats have her prefix too. We borrowed a lovely goat of hers for a few months for milk in the winter. We have a Balafark girl as well, my boyfriend bought one of Nancy's kids last year. I take it you know Sheila as well then if you used Inverghost?
Beth
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I contacted Sheila Little through the BT male register, also Nancy Buglass had mentioned her as a possible match for Skyee. Her goats were lovely, and she keeps them all in a big group. I wish I had that amount of space...
I got Skyee after seeing her at Border Union show, Nancy was keen to sell the last few of her goats, and she was well bred up, so should have lots of milk.
There are quite a few Muircock goats around, and they do pop up in older records etc. I don't know much about the history though. I hope that once the BGS gets their new system up and running it becomes much easier to search pedigrees and histories of the prefixes.
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I contacted Sheila Little through the BT male register, also Nancy Buglass had mentioned her as a possible match for Skyee. Her goats were lovely, and she keeps them all in a big group. I wish I had that amount of space...
I got Skyee after seeing her at Border Union show, Nancy was keen to sell the last few of her goats, and she was well bred up, so should have lots of milk.
There are quite a few Muircock goats around, and they do pop up in older records etc. I don't know much about the history though. I hope that once the BGS gets their new system up and running it becomes much easier to search pedigrees and histories of the prefixes.
The 2 GG's I got last year are "Muircock" from Anne Dickinson.
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I didn't realise yours were Muircock as well James- what a small world it is!
We must have crossed paths quite closely Anke, we were at the Border Union too, although we didn't have many goats there as some of our entries got lost in the post, and the show wouldn't let us bring those goats despite BGS rules which state we should have been allowed to compete. We ended up only showing my two neices goatlings, which was a shame when their weren't that many goats there. In fact it was at the Border Union that Alex and Nancy discussed him buying Sheni.
Beth
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beth have you heared this quize that roxy is setting up, to test my knowledge
on goat keeping?
i did say i was up for it! wat do you think maybe between the two of you ye
could set it up.
multiple choice makes easier for all of us.
looking forward to it. ;)
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we were at the Border Union too, although we didn't have many goats there as some of our entries got lost in the post, and the show wouldn't let us bring those goats despite BGS rules which state we should have been allowed to compete.
Beth
In dog shows if you have 'proof of posting' from the Post Office then you must be allowed to compete. KC rules. But you can't just walk in, you have to look at the catalogue when you arrive and if your entry isn't there you go to the show secretary with your proof of posting and she gives you a slip for the ring steward.
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only kidding(do you get it, kidding - goat) ;D
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has that meeting been yet?
id like to know how much ive learnt!
come on crack on with it
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we were at the Border Union too, although we didn't have many goats there as some of our entries got lost in the post, and the show wouldn't let us bring those goats despite BGS rules which state we should have been allowed to compete.
Beth
In dog shows if you have 'proof of posting' from the Post Office then you must be allowed to compete. KC rules. But you can't just walk in, you have to look at the catalogue when you arrive and if your entry isn't there you go to the show secretary with your proof of posting and she gives you a slip for the ring steward.
The British Goat Society rules are similar, it says if you have submitted entries and they haven't been received you should be allowed to compete. But the Border Union is run by the agricultural society, and they have their own rules and regulations. We realised our entries hadn't been recieved about the Tuesday before as we suddenly realised we hadn't got any entry tickets but my sister had got hers. Our goat convener, Diana also spoke to the show, but they refused to let us bring them. Diana was absolutely furious therefore when on the Saturday at the show, she watched a exhibit in the cattle being awarded 1st prize, when it's entry hadn't been recieved either. But, it's a lovely show, and the organisers do put on a lot for us given the smallish entries we get, so it's not worth complaining too much about it.
Beth
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Yes the Border Union show is really nice, they have everything (except pigs) and I will try and show the GG goatling and possibly kids (if get any girls) there. Can't really not do it - its less than 20 minutes drive from my house....
These last two years have been mainly watching the Shetland sheep judging (but didnt bring any of mine down yet), but its usually right next to the goat tent.
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Put me out me misery Anke how do I say it as in ankie (snot rag) bluddi peasant arnt I :farmer:
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Yes that would be close enough! Never did my parents think that when they gave me that name that it would cause quite a lot of questions of how to pronounce, as at that time getting out of East Germany wasnt really an option! But have been in UK since 1991, so must like it then...
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Thank you Anke its nice to know.My other problem is knowing if a name is a boy or a girl ask hermit ;D ;D So pleased you like it here it must be a good place so many want to come :farmer: