[Rosemary]

It is just if you would be starting up a herd with females from different breeders it is a bit more complicated especially as the standstill is 13 days... and them maybe have one or two already in kid... but not impossible, just requires some forwardplanning.

Hmmm, see what you mean. But the actual transport in itself is great. I suppose the ideal is to get a starter herd from one person. What are the chances?

[Croftess]

Jinglejoys they are gorgeous - changed my mind I want OE - but likely will change again!

[Lesley Silvester]

Jinglejoys, I love your goats. I have seen OE before and think they are lovely. If I didn't have Sanaans I might be tempted.

[lilfeeb]

Irene Macreath has quite a lot of English goats in Dumfries and Galloway some of which came from the far north. She often has some for sale, she would also be happy to have a chat about whether the breed  meets your needs. i can PM you her contact details if you would like. (she's my sister)

[jinglejoys]

English or Old English, lilfeeb ?

[lilfeeb]

They are the same breed, the old english goat society is relatively new (only formed in 2004) and a breakaway group which as i understand it from their website is only interested in a particular type of goat within the breed and in crossing this type with feral goats to create a new breed within a breed (so the name can be somewhat misdirecting) it is actually a new breed selected for particular characteristics. The English goat breeders association is the more established group but may not be what you are looking for if you prefer the less productive type within the breed which is perceived to be more hardy by the new group but I am unaware of any evidence to support this. My sister would have some which fit into both groups some of which came from orkney and shetland so they are very hardy. although I thing she is a member of the english goat breeders society (I am not 100% sure) so I think it would depend on what is most important to you, There is a bigger genepool to select from in terms of English rather than old english goats in the country. (from their website only 100 officially registered as old English) but this may increase if more english goats are identified as having the appropriate characteristics as the society becomes more established.

although I don't have goats myself, i have been around goats most of my life, my mother kept english goats and british toggernburgs and in the latter time a few british alpine as well. She had a cheese business which did really well until her back began to cause to much pain (the english tended to have milk with higher butterfats and protein although less volume than the swiss types). if i were you I would look into the two breeds and golden guernseys in a bit more detail before you decide on what you want. It can be difficult to get access to unrelated Billys even in the breeds with bigger populations, although AI is becoming more common. because goats are largely kept by smallholders or in small numbers apart from one or two big dairy enterprises, people often have to travel long distances to get access to unrelated animals to breed with.

hopefully some food for thought.

[lilfeeb]

hopefully here is apicture of some of irenes goats. Including some toggenburgs as well as her english goats

[goosepimple]

I'm hoping to get some Old English in the next year or so, possibly from Jaykay.  As I understand it, the Old English are smaller than the English, being larger than a pygmy with longer horns, but smaller than the bigger milkers.  We just want milk for ourselves, not to be inundated hence our choice, and hopefully they will be less of a threat to our existing pygmies.


Anyone out there with Old English, could you let us know where you are ......?  thanks in advance.

[jinglejoys]

If you want to go for the bigger English goat make sure you have all the stripes in the right places (a shot of Anglo Nubian X British Alpine should do it )

[jaykay]

Both girls have scanned with twins GP, so hopefully there'll be two does in amongst them! Both due around the end of April 

OEs tend to be smaller, with heavier, longer coats. Mine co-exist reasonably with the two pygmies I rescued - Ellie (OE) bosses everyone around and the pygmy boys hold their own - the difference in size isn't too bad.

[goosepimple]

good luck Jaykay, have you thought about what you'll do if they're boys 

[Croftess]

I've had a hectic couple of weeks including starting an intensive new job so haven't had much time to think about goats I'm afraid  sorry I've not replied sooner.

Lifeeb - thank you I've pm'd you and thanks for all the info and the lovely pic. It would make sense to get as much info as possible about potential breeds, like you say travelling long distances (overnight ferry in my case) to go to a billy would be expensive and draining, but I would like to chat with your sister

[jaykay]

Oh, they go into the freezer in due course if they're boys, at about 8 months old.

[irenemcc]

Hi Croftess

My name has been mentioned once or twice on here and I think my sister has given you my contact details.  Getting animals on and off Shetland should be reasonably straightforward with a little organisation.  As mentioned I brought some English goats down from Orkney several years ago when the owner had to move house.  I think that it is the same ferry company that will serve Shetland too.  They are extremely helpful and despite it being a long journey involving two ferries (the goats were from one of the smaller islands and had to be ferried into Mainland Orkney first before being loaded onto the big ferry down to Aberdeen), it went without any hitches and the goats arrived here in good form.  As I was unable to get up to Aberdeen myself, I used Henry Thomson, Sauchen Livestock Transporters who met the ferry and transferred the goats.  As these were all in milk, I also got my friend Agnes Aitken to meet the ferry so they could all be milked before setting off on the next leg of the journey - definitely easier to transport them when not in milk!  As far as I can recall, you pay for a "section" on the ferry, so it is the same price for one goat as it was for the six I had in the section - may also be something to bear in mind.

[irenemcc]

An English goat (Old English or otherwise) should be smaller than any swiss types.  Mine are.  If I had a pound for everytime I have been told at a BGS show that "it would be a good goat if it was a bit bigger/gave a bit more milk" then I could probably retire tomorrow.  The majority stand just below hipheight on me (only 5'3" tall) and give between 5 and 7 pints a day at peak yield dropping off to between 1-3 pints in the winter.  The main advantage that I consider the English have over the swiss is the level of cashmere in their coats - through the winter here even the most modern type English have coats that look like bottle brushes as the amount of cashmere forces the outer guard hairs to stand out, trapping a lot of warmth.  The BT's that I "inherited" when my mother gave up keeping goats often need jackets to keep them warm here AND they eat twice as much food.  Strangely, the Orkney goats are taller than my homebred lines but the extra height is all leg.  My homebred lines can all trace back to Jemima, the first goat registered with the English Goat Breeders Association on its revival in the 1970's and includes bloodlines such as Hillbilly, Smithfield, Harcross and Ferrocrete.  The Orkney bred goats also have Hillbilly bloodlines alongside Lakelands and Boniface.  Sorry I do seem to be waffling here, so will stop.