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Author Topic: Bitish Primitive /Old English  (Read 12392 times)

Croftess

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Shetland
    • www.thecreativecroft.co.uk
Bitish Primitive /Old English
« on: February 20, 2014, 05:25:44 pm »
Hello folks :wave:

I would love to hear any info and opinion on keeping this old hardy native breed? I've written to the society but wonder if anyone is there as I've not had any response. Are there  any Old English owners on this forum and would I be right in assuming that this would be the perfect breed to keep in Shetland? We (my husband and I) have a preference for native breeds whatever the livestock.

I'm currently working my way through the goat section and about halfway through, so far not much info on the Old English. Thanks for reading.
Shetland sheep, poultry, dogs, cats, budgies - have kept Shetland cattle, geese, ducks, turkeys - really want goats


www.thecreativecroft.co.uk

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 09:28:10 pm »
As far as I know there is only JayKay on this forum who keeps Old English.

But you would need to source a good number of females and at least one if not two unrelated males to establish a viable breeding herd of OE up in Shetland. Seems to be quite a logistical undertaking...

I would have thought for milk in the Shetlands the Shetland coo would be ideal?

When we visited (in the summer) we took in Cunningsburgh Show and there are certainly goatkeepers on Shetland, but no rare breeds. As long as you can make sure you have a certain supply of hay each year, they do thrive on cattle/dairy mix, but probably spend a lot of time in their shelter...

Croftess

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Shetland
    • www.thecreativecroft.co.uk
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 10:11:22 pm »
Thank you Anke, yes the shetland coo is the archetypal house-cow, except that I can't drink coo's milk  :'( we never milked the one we had.  The goats I've seen up here are quite large and one of my reasons for wanting a smaller goat was because of the fencing issue. I keep reading about goats jumping fences and we have a lot of standard height (42") livestock fencing which would be financially impractical to change. We kept weaners for two seasons with electric fencing, not sure if I want to have to use that system again.

The other breed that I'm very interested in is the Golden Guernsey, which is I believe one of the breeds you have? Is that right? Do you breed them or keep nannys and kids?    I'm charmed by their personalities  and would love to know what the milk tastes like, is it strong or sweet? My current thinking is to come down to the mainland at the end of summer/early autumn and pick up a female with a goatling (preferably female), see how we get on and then possibly think about getting a billyboy the following year - not sure how other folk do these things.
Shetland sheep, poultry, dogs, cats, budgies - have kept Shetland cattle, geese, ducks, turkeys - really want goats


www.thecreativecroft.co.uk

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 06:58:35 am »
Yes I keep Golden Guernsey goats as well as British Toggenburgs. I also have started to cross breed my GG's to breed them up to British Guernsey status.

Milk from GG's does not taste any different to milk from other goat breeds, the taste is really influenced by their feed stuff and their general health and mineral balance internally. Raw goatsmilk (which you cannot sell/buy in Scotland, but of course get from your own holding) does not have the "goaty" taste that comes with the goatsmilk from the shops.  Over winter my butterfat content is higher than 5% making the milk really, really creamy!

You will get about 3 -4ltrs per day during summer from an average GG, in winter that drops to around 2ltrs, and around Xmas time is probably 1.5ltrs. But I have milked my GG successfully for two years without kidding, so if you were to start off with a female kidded the same spring, milked her through and also took a pregnant goatling you would be able to keep them without a male for about two years. GG's are actually as hardy as any other breed and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for Shetland. GG's are really a breed for the family smallholding, where of course you want to make a bit of cheese, but not tons every week.

There was someone on this forum (but hasn't been on for a while) who I visited while on holiday in Shetland and she did have a young unregistered GG billy (but he could have had other breeds in him too, as the golden colour is no sign of them being pure), so there is history of GG's up in Shetland.

If you look at the Golden Guernsey Goat society website there is quite a bit of info. There are GG breeders further North than I am (I am in the Scottish Borders), but if you were to try and get a "mini"herd together I could assist you in sourcing stock, especially as I realise that getting goats up to Shetland is not that simple an exercise... (I have thought about getting some Shetland sheep down after I fell for a handsome tup at Cunningsburgh show  - I also have pedigree Shetlands - but my "financial manager", aka OH didn't approve...)

Croftess

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Shetland
    • www.thecreativecroft.co.uk
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 10:56:21 am »
Ooh that sounds a perfect proposition - however this is still very much an idea as my daughter is getting married in the spring  (finances) and I also have a beloved old diabetic dog, sadly now blind and very needy, so I couldn't leave him with anyone else as the moment. If we were to buy some stock from you (if you had any for sale that is) or from another breeder that you could maybe source, we could bring some sheep with us for you. Which tups were you interested in was it a particular colour or breed line?

The GGs really do sound the ticket and I'm intrigued by the possibility of there being someone who may have a billy - I rang the vets a while ago  just trying to source some goat herds and they told me of only one herd of saanens and I have tried ringing feed merchants to see if they sell any goat feed but its all very vague. Would you happen to know which area of Shetland this person lived in was it north or south or one of the smaller islands?

Thank you for help, its much appreciated.  :D
Shetland sheep, poultry, dogs, cats, budgies - have kept Shetland cattle, geese, ducks, turkeys - really want goats


www.thecreativecroft.co.uk

ballingall

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2008
  • Avonbridge, Falkirk
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 09:33:13 pm »
Hello,


There is someone on Orkney who has Old English- I don't have any contact details for them though. Irene McCreath in Dumfries and Galloway got a few females from Orkney a couple of years ago. Irene has quite a few and is the only person I know in mainland Scotland who breeds them.


However, I also know of a Golden Guernsey goatling for sale in the Aberdeen area.


Beth

wytsend

  • Joined Oct 2010
  • Okehampton
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 06:55:44 am »
Croftess..........I hope you are successful in finding the right type of goat for you.

With regard to feed.......................most of us now feed a calf mix or pellets and not goat mix.    The reason is simple,    most goat mixes are based on sheep minerals with little or no copper.   Goats need as much copper as a cow, relatively speaking !!  It is also considerably cheaper which is an important consideration.

Most of the land in UK is copper deficient and therefore the hay is also.  Yes you can use mineral blocks but in my nearly 40 yr experience, most goats would rather play with the blocks than actually eat it.  So by putting the better feed and mineral supplement in front of them, you know they have had the best you can do.    I expect most feed is imported to the Islands so will be more expensive in the first place  so use the one which gives you the best possible.

The other thing to consider, cobalt is vital to goats, otherwise the milk taste is awful.   Cobalt is to be removed from animal feed over the next  year or two so extra Vit B12 in a supplement is essential.  Not surprisingly the EU is responsible for this feed change.

I recommend Brinicombes  Premium Goat Feed Balancer which is delivered direct to your door  .......  a little more expensive thn some but you use less than some other preparations.   The telephone number to call is

01363  778792 and speak to Kym Moore.

Hope the above has been helpful...................I don't keep GGs,  only Anglo Nubians, British Alpine & pure Saanen!!!!

Croftess

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Shetland
    • www.thecreativecroft.co.uk
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 10:53:23 am »
Thank you Beth all good info for the future and thanks too Wytsend interesting to read about the copper and cobalt - we had our shetland sheep tested a few years ago for levels and needless to say we don't need to give any supplements :thumbsup:
Shetland sheep, poultry, dogs, cats, budgies - have kept Shetland cattle, geese, ducks, turkeys - really want goats


www.thecreativecroft.co.uk

goosepimple

  • Joined May 2010
  • nr Lauder, Scottish Borders
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 08:08:28 pm »
I smash up the Red Rockie mineral block with a hammer into powder/sand form and 'season' their food with it so I know they're getting it.
registered soay, castlemilk moorit  and north ronaldsay sheep, pygmy goats, steinbacher geese, muscovy ducks, various hens, lots of visiting mallards, a naughty border collie, a puss and a couple of guinea pigs

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 10:15:05 pm »
Hi, sorry been really busy today trying to finish off the new extension for the billy to move in so I have room for kidding pens... Goats herds seem to expand all the time!

At this stage I wouldn't worry about feed supplements, as long as you want a good milk supply for the house (and not be commercially viable or win the local show) goats will do fine with either a calf or a ewe&lamb mix, plus a RedRockie lick. Good hay is really quite important, and I also rely a lot on cut branches - one thing you may struggle with in Shetland. But mine love Willowherb and willow branches - both of which I know do grow in Shetland. Other greenery mine love is comfrey and horseradish (leaves only). Carrots, apples, cabbages etc all greatly appreciated.

Actually I have been really quite forgetful on the Caprivite (the main goat supplement in the UK) front recently and haven't noticed any drop in performance... My GG's only very rarely use their lick, whereas the BT's need a new one about once a year.

Once I get the current Golden Guernsey Goat Society membership list I can see who is still active up North, and then maybe we can discuss things further.

Transporting up to Shetland would only be feasible out of Aberdeen wouldn't it?

I take it your local library will have some goatbooks available? I actually prefer the older ones with regard to general management - much more about feeding home-grown feedstuff rather than bought-in concentrate, building your own goat shed and pens etc etc, however for veterinary matters the newer ones are of course better.


Croftess

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Shetland
    • www.thecreativecroft.co.uk
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 12:07:08 pm »
Beth - would I be right in thinking a goatling is a young 'unkidded' (for want of a better word) female? I think I'd be better trying for a nanny with kid or would that be more of a problem with regards to me milking an older experience doe - I'm a complete milking novice?

Anke - Goats extensions, how exciting, does that mean more GGs?  An idea of current breeders would be very useful. I'm still trying to source folk on the island with goats and have been talking with a few who have dairy type crosses, not the types of goats I'd like to keep however. And yes transporting to Shetland would mean embarking on the overnight ferry. I'd better get more willow cuttings in - we're trying to establish a windbreak for the veg area but its taking a long time - the wind keeps everything quite low to the ground. I'm an avid reader of any literature based on the subject I'm interested in - I'll research till the cows come home  :D Thanks for the info and please let me know when you have more?

Goosepimple - I've tucked your tip away in my head until I'm ready to start using it - cheers :D
Shetland sheep, poultry, dogs, cats, budgies - have kept Shetland cattle, geese, ducks, turkeys - really want goats


www.thecreativecroft.co.uk

jinglejoys

  • Joined Jul 2009
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 12:47:40 pm »
I've had Old English for over 30yrs...love them










goosepimple

  • Joined May 2010
  • nr Lauder, Scottish Borders
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 04:48:24 pm »
Great pics Jingle, I like the formation team.  I'm hoping for some from Jaykay, see what she has this spring.  Where in the world are you Jingle?
registered soay, castlemilk moorit  and north ronaldsay sheep, pygmy goats, steinbacher geese, muscovy ducks, various hens, lots of visiting mallards, a naughty border collie, a puss and a couple of guinea pigs

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 04:51:53 pm »
I don't think getting livestock to and from Shetland is that hard - we bought our heifers from Shetland and it was dead easy. Actually, all we had to do was pick them up but the ferry set-up was great.

Good luck with your search for the goat of your dream  :thumbsup:

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Bitish Primitive /Old English
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2014, 05:20:45 pm »
I don't think getting livestock to and from Shetland is that hard - we bought our heifers from Shetland and it was dead easy. Actually, all we had to do was pick them up but the ferry set-up was great.

Good luck with your search for the goat of your dream  :thumbsup:

It is just if you would be starting up a herd with females from different breeders it is a bit more complicated especially as the standstill is 13 days... and them maybe have one or two already in kid... but not impossible, just requires some forwardplanning.

 

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