[MiriMaran]

That's exactly why I did some reading up first!  Questions are great, but if you have someone asking how do I keep pigs you would have to spend a week writing the reply!!!

[Farmer]

No matter how basic the question or how experienced/inexperienced the questioner, surely the people on here can take a little time to pass on their own knowledge and experience...after all the one thing that we all have in common is a need for help and advice now and again; otherwise we wouldn't be here!

Whilst I largely agree with everything that Unicorn has said and fully endorse the call for researching any animal well before you embark on keeping/breeding them, I do think EVERYONE should be encouraged to ASK QUESTIONS, no matter how mundane they may appear to the more experienced or knowledgable amongst us...that's how we learn and become better at what we do.

I'm absolutely sure that none of us knows everything but some of us can learn a great deal from asking questions of people whom we believe have a like minded approach to smallholding.

This is only one of many sources of information to be found on the internet...lets encourage people to communicate through TAS no matter what stage they're at or how limited their knowledge is.

Farmer
 

[Padge]

 

[vickylouxx]

hi Ive been reading the whole post and i now Ive asked some questions that most of you would of thought i should know before keeping any animal and also to read books , well we have kept animals before and i worked on a farm but that was 20 years ago Ive since found that what was done then isn't done now and the difference in living in Scotland to england is diffrent to the approach of when to feed animals , also with reading books is fine but if like me your dyslexic and struggle with some of the meanings of long  words or just cant read them , asking on forums where i can then ask if I'm confused on the words for a better understanding , or just ask for them to explain it more i cant do that with a book , but once Ive got that extra help i can then go back to my books for more help so i will say that if i ask for advice which you might think i should know before then I'm sorry cause all we are doing is learning and i think most of us do read the books but i find if you get diffrent peoples advice you then can make a better educated choice  by compairing what is being said and what you read i thought that is what this forum was for help and advice to pass good and bad experance on to others

[Padge]

No matter how basic the question or how experienced/inexperienced the questioner, surely the people on here can take a little time to pass on their own knowledge and experiencekeeping/breeding
...lets encourage people to communicate through TAS no matter what stage they're at or how limited their knowledge is.

Farmer
 :farmer

Probably the most sensible and concise response

[Unicorn]

Whilst I largely agree with everything that Unicorn has said and fully endorse the call for researching any animal well before you embark on keeping/breeding them, I do think EVERYONE should be encouraged to ASK QUESTIONS, no matter how mundane they may appear to the more experienced or knowledgable amongst us...that's how we learn and become better at what we do.
Farmer
 

That is the point I intended to make - glad some saw it

Also pleased you got a wink from Padge - would dread to think we were clicky too

[marigold]

I've just caught up on this thread and I think that it just shows how difficult modern life is.
Over the last two years since I bought my field I have bought, borrowed and devoured a bookcase full of books on animal rearing. I've talked to folk locally and by email. This forum has me logging on almost daily and I really enjoy the range of opinions - however none of it is easy. Someone on a different thread asked for advice as long as it wasn't conflicting......
Maybe we should have a new game where we have to find a livestock question that we all agree on the answer to. I think it might take a while. Also when there is so much info of varying quality out there, (at least two books I spent money on told me zilch) and even basic published material is not immediately accessible, a great way to start is to ask on a forum. The Amazon links on the bottem of the pages are fabby. but it took me a few weeks to even notice them. Life is so complicated now. In the past the village busybody would pass on loads of advice - it might be rubbish but it would have been fairly simple.
I think that we should encourage anyone to ask any question and not be embarrassed about whether its a daft question or not.
My old Dad says that 'you can't understand the answer until you ask the question'

[Unicorn]

Well done for all the reading

Yes books - especially the old ones can get it wrong - I have to point out to smallholder on the Pig keeping course who say they have the Bible (John Seymours book of Self Sufficiency) that we don't dock tails, cut teeth or feed dairy and meat to pigs these days.

There are a lot of great people on here - but as Happy Hippy agreed recently you would wonder about the animals future if more work wasn't done - better to have experts opinion too, as you say, there will be a lot of people disagree on certain points.

We are all the total sum of our own experience, and we are all unique and see things different - Padge views my post as hostile - I view it as giving out a bit of common sense to would be animal keepers -

I would prefer to begin with a book written by a professional with lots of experience giving me the basic understandings of the subject - but then thats how I approach things - I'm still studying now, social science and psychology - and love it - its good to learn new skills.

[marigold]

Think we're dangerously close to agreeing.
But I love books and my eldest daughter who is very dyslexic would never manage one.
Luckily she is unlikely to ever keep a pig

[Unicorn]

But thats whats so great about the librarys - we have bought, but I am sure you can borrow
a lot of the River Cottage Series, and we have taped Jimmys Farm - he did make mistakes at the beginning
though, once he left a sow that was farrowing when she was only half way through and lost a good few
piglets.
Quite often our sows have given birth to seven, then eat, drink, turn over, and an hour later have another seven, we have cameras up in the farrowing house and always bring them in to have their litters, theres bedding water, warmth, red lamp for the babies for the first day in the summer, four days in the winter, and the lamp is in a sectioned off corner so they get used to being out of mammys moving area and are less likely to be stood on.

When we started, there wasn't as much info on dvd or in books that there is now, its becomming very popular to keep rare breed pigs.  We encourage people in a good position to keep them, but we also hope its not going to be a "fashion" with some people.
This happened with donkey keeping and dogs in handbags brigades - thats the only worry. 

There's not a fast buck to be made either - some people seem to be rushing into pig keeping only for financial gain too, its an ever changing market, lots getting out of it, and lots coming in, at the moment.

[marigold]

Unfortunately I don't meet many people who want to keep pigs and the ones close to me have huge farms with big KEEP OUT signs at the end of the track. I do meet inner city kids who think that the countryside is a foreign country and last week met a couple who claimed not to know that lamb chops came from real animals. I would like there to be more smallholdings around here with more people who faced the responsibility that comes (to my mind) with putting food in your mouth.
I do worry sometimes that I spend too long reading books or forums and not enough time doing. I should be in bed right now so that I can get up early do some real work before virtually working at my desk all day.
Whoops think I'm off subject - Heigh ho

[doganjo]

I normally delete without reading anything about pigs and sheep, sometimes also cattle, because I don't have any, and never will - I don't want to breed anything that is killed for eating.  I'm not vegetarian - I just can't kill an animal I have a relationship with - that's just me.  However, something made me start reading this thread, and as far as I can see Unicorn wasn't being aggressive at all.  She, like me, is passionate.  Sometimes passion can seem aggressive but it is only because we have such a great Love for the animal/breed/species concerned and wish only the best for it.  To want newcomers to do heir homework BEFORE getting and animal or starting to breed is only simple common sense!

I have made my mistakes too, even after years of experience and numerous books - well before the Internet was even thought of.  My first litter of Brittanys(not my first altogether litter - I'd bred Cockers before that) Gigi had 6 pups and my neighbour phoned to see how things were as she had had one pup on the way home in the car from a vet check up (who said she had another day to go yet - huh!), and taken it forward and dumped it on my knee while I was driving.  I said I thought she was finished after the six, and seemed quite settled and feeding them well, so she asked me to go round for a welcome cup of tea.  I was horrified to find a flat dead pup in the whelping box on my return 15 minutes later and did everything possible to bring it round without success.  I have felt so guilty about Jamie ever since (we named him before burying him in the garden), so even books didn't help me.  I should have been prepared to stay with my bitch until I was absolutely 100% sure that all the pups and placentas were out.

[Unicorn]

Annie - thanks for sharing that with us, because it reminded me of something else.

We had a pig once that had nine, then the afterbirth, so we believed that was that, we stayed with her for a while, then left her.

Three hours later, we checked her before bed, then left them all till morning.
When we returned about five hours later, she had had two more piglets, huge ones, and another afterbirth - which really means that you can never be sure. 

Night Night everyone - time for sleep

[cameldairy]

Night, night unicorn!

[Hilarysmum]

Now that reminds me of when Fiona ...... had 6 piglets.  Appeared to have finished.  Ate her breakfast.  I went off to feed the others came back 30 minutes later .... Fiona had had another 2.  All perfectly fine.