[Kitchen Cottage]

Stall the digger!

I didn't say my vet is right.... I was actually asking for opinion on whether EPO is good for dogs and better.... oh and, he's in his 50's and does dogs all his life, including breeding and showing, so yes, I do value his opinion, experience and education.

jebus

[jaykay]

Have never tried EPO. In hummins, it's used to stabilise menstrual cycles rather than joints I think. Maybe it does both?

Can vouch for glucosamine and chondroitin, on my mum, myself and the dogs 

[funkyfish]

Essential fatty acids are good for joints. Help with keeping the joint fluid healthy. So yes epo is good.

[shygirl]

things have gone downhill again this last week so im wondering whether it is kinder to put him to sleep.

he is noticibly lame on all legs but his back is looking sore too. he tends to scoot along all hunched up when he runs, and seems to be unable to lift his tail. his tail is kept permanently tucked under his legs including when he is trying to poo. when he poops he screams and if you try to lift his tail he cries.
he is messing in his bed which he had never ever done and is not wanting to go outside at all, he just shivers and sits hunched up.

im sure his eyes are saying hes in pain, where as 2 months ago he was looking alot better.
this will be the 5th time this year that his back has given him trouble. never at all in any time previously.

does it seem kinder to put him to sleep? or move up to tramadol, which will apparently numb his brain aswell?

[funkyfish]

I wou try some tramadol. It won't numb his brain. He may be a bit sleepy on the first few doses.  It also has a positive effect on brain chemistry so it makes them feel happy as well. If it doesn't have much of an effect it may be time...

Have you tried wheat bags or a towel warmed on the radiator? May help ease his muscles.

[funkyfish]

He is not an old dog. Have you had an acpat physio assessment? He may have a sore back from walking oddly guarding his sore bits and his back may need realignment. I'm sure that there is more you can do for him to keep him better.

I'd keep a coat on him in the cold weather to keep his joints warm and get him as skinny as you can with a very strict diet even the new hills metabolic diet which will get quick weight loss it will help a lot.

[shygirl]

he doesnt like you to touch his back. he has always been a wriggly lab - likely to sit / roll over if you stroked him, but now he is wriggly and spins in a circle to avoid you touching his back / tail.

is it common for a dog to be unable to round his back to do a poop? i think thats whats distressing him so much at the minute. he cries everytime he tries to poop. when it hurts he wants to go to his bed, so ends up pooing in his bed.  hes not constipated or anything.

he is slim, infact we had to fatten him a bit as friends were commenting on how thin he was - hes 31kg atm but has a chunky/big head body. just see his ribs, tho skinny hips due to muscle waste etc.
not had any physio but to be honest i couldnt afford it either.
hes on loxicom, garlic, cod liver oil, chrondrotin/glucosamine. he had weekly injections for a month which were good but now hes gone right down hill again.

[in the hills]

Think it's difficult unless you can see the dog but he is not very old really so thinking it would be worth trying all reasonable options. We have had dogs older than him that looked as though there time had come but they picked up again with change in treatments.


Is he a house dog or outdoors? Harder for them if living outdoors in the winter and may sway any decision.


Back to the vet for advise maybe. 


Crossposted shygirl. Sorry to ask but is his actual anus okay? We had a lab that developed growths in that area and caused some of the problems you describe.


Some of our oldies did develop odd postures when pooing ..... due to stiffness etc.

[shygirl]

his anus seems ok by sight. if you lift his tail he cries.

the dogs sleep in the conservatory. he has a tuffie.

thanks

[doganjo]

If he was mine I'd give him peace.  What does your vet advise?

[shygirl]

i had the boss vet round to the farm so he could see him in his natural environment (rather than surgery where he acts daft - dog not vet) and he agreed he was lame in every leg, severely in one, lots of muscle wastage etc

he recommended the course of injections which he has had, which is suppose to last 6 mths, then onto tramadol if he gets worse. im sure the vet implied if it was his dog he would put him to sleep, but he never actually said those words so now wondering if i misinterpreted.

when the dog has been into the surgery he has seen a different vet each time, often his visit is a minute long, ie injection then home.
he hasnt had the xrays we were told to have as money is tight, but the vet said xrays confirm the original diagnosis 99% of the time in this situation anyway. surgery isnt a possibilty as wev left it too late.

[in the hills]

Shygirl, I think I would ask the vet outright ...... what is best for the dog and what would he do if he were his. May help you to make up your mind.


Is he eating?


Does he still want to go out most of the time?


Wag his tail?


Always really difficult. You will know inside when enough is enough.


You might feel more content in your decision if you at least give the tramadol a try. 

[shygirl]

he is eating.
he is following on a walk but alot slower than normal. he is running with his tail clamped under, he is running to catch up rather than running ahead. he is the sort of dog who would do anything to be with you anyway, whether it hurt or not. he acts like he is 14, not 8. his eyes look worried too, which i havent noticed before.
he cant wag his tail much at the moment, as he doesnt want to lift it.

i think we will go back to vet monday and ask what to do. he hates car journeys so wont be fun.

[SallyintNorth]

If it were me I would have to find the money for the x-ray because I would have to know.  Do it all in one visit - x-ray and wait while the vet analyses it, then you can have whatever treatment it indicates, or give him peace.

Each of us is different, but if it were me, it would haunt me forever if I didn't find out for sure what is the problem and end his suffering promptly, one way or another.

You used to be able to take animals to the PDSA if they needed treatment that the owner couldn't afford - is that still the case?

[happygolucky]

A lot of Vets would let you pay in instalments ....I feel for you, none of us like to face that choice!