[nelson]

Awoke this morning to find that our saanen had given birth to 4 dead (still in sack) this morning.    Mum is looking okay eating but looks bewildered  - this is our first time with a kidding so what to do next?


Her udders are of course full - should I be looking for an afterbirth?  would be grateful for some advice. Thanks
 Lorraine

[little blue]

should still get an afterbirth ... keep an eye on how long, as she may need a vet & injection (I believe the "passing" is stimulated by the hormone changes from suckling kids?)

poor goat, and how awful for your first kidding.
How many kiddings has the goat had? 

you can milk her as soon as she is happy enough to let you, but don't drink it for a few days, The colostrum tastes goaty! but very valuable for eg orphans, and freezes well.

there are much more knowledgeable goatkeepers who will help you more,

I hope the experience doesn't put you off, very traumatic for you

[mojocafa]

How awful for you and the goat.

Unfortunately can't advise, but someone should be along soon

Cross posted with lb

Mojo

[nelson]

Thanks - she is quite good natured even still - there is a string coming out suspect it is the afterbirth.  I have milked before so will try and milk her if she will let me - I am thinking that will help her with the afterbirth.


This is her second kidding.


Thanks

[shygirl]

 you may see a hanging "string" out of the back her - but the majority of the afterbirth will still be inside.

my cow will eat hers so you have to check regularly to see if its out as if its retained it can make them ill so it needs to come out. ponies in particular can get very sick within 12hrs of a retained placenta - not sure about goats.

very sad for you.

[smudger]

Do you have more goats to kid ?  If so you may want to check with your vet - they can run tests but want fresh material asap to do it (afterbirth and feotus). Depends if you feel its worth spending the cost but could help to decide if you want to vaccinate next year.  Shame to lose 4 kids but sounds as if they were premature.  Do you have cats on premises?  I presume goats suffer the same abortive agents as sheep so worth having a look at that.  You may also want to consider an LA antibiotic anyway as a precaution and definitely milk her - she doesn't need mastitis to add to her woes.


Good luck.

[Anke]

Yes I would ease her udder out definitely, you can freeze the colostrum, especially if she had a booster vaccination recently it will be valuable for future use.
 
I would ask the vet for a syringe of oxytocin to make sure she produces the afterbirth. I would also inject with a long-acting antibiotic, just to be on the safe side (and as you cannot drink the milk for a few days anyway not a problem either).
 
It could have been many things causing this, quads can be quite a strain on her system, so maybe was just that or some abortive agent, like Toxoplasmosis or other. I would now try and make sure she is ok, start milking her out completely from about day 4, but watch that she is eating ok especially if she is a heavy milker. Any worries that she may stop - drench with Cetophyton (or equivalent) and also inject Calcium (Calciject as for sheep). A mineral/multivit drench (with Copper) would also help her.
 
Hope that she produces plenty of milk for you, and unless she is in super condition (unlikely after quads) I would definitely run her through to next autumn before mating again.

[ferretkeeper]

Gosh, so sad for you.

I had a similar experience recently, a first time kidder in labour, nothing happening but she was straining like mad. Vet called, delivered the dead kid, it was a big'un and presented rump first, not legs. She had a long acting AB and painkiller, seemed ok while it lasted but she was still off colour, not eating etc. I was milking her but she did not enjoy it. Then I went back to the vet for more ABs, daily injections, and a metacam but a day after the course of ABs stopped she literally dropped dead, just couldn't cope.

It broke my heart and in hindsight I wish I'd been more forceful with the vet re painkillers, calcium etc etc. but it was my first time kidding too. I might have saved her. Don't take any chances, I don't think any of those things Anke suggested will do any harm if she doesn't need them but may save her if she does.

I actually came on to post about a kid born this morning to the sort of sister of the one that died - they weren't related but got them as young kids together, hand reared. Anyway I missed the whole thing, despite getting up at 5, I found the kid up and about, dry and looking for milk, mum looks good too.

I'm not trying to boast, merely to say that my faith has been restored, my heart healed and that yours will too. These things happen, and it's awful that it's your first experience but don't let it put you off, it will be better and easier next time, you'll be more prepared.

 
 

[nelson]

Hi and thanks so much  to read ... but first have just taken a little col from her - she having a little trickle of blood  it is hanging - she has had a wee - and has eaten raspberry leaves and munching hay and straw - she is though trying to pass something - so I am going back and forth to the stable - in between reading the posts.

[sabrina]

Terrible for you and so sad for the poor goat. Maybe she picked up an infection although 4 kids would have been quite a strain on her body. Not a goat person so no experience, would she foster a kid is that possible. Might help her recover quicker.

[nelson]

Is it possible that she has a 5th? she is crouching and straining? will call the vet now but it is sunday in france and lunch time so is there anything I can do?

[nelson]

Hi again - well she is clearly straining - arching her back and crouching ...

[ferretkeeper]

Sounds like she's trying to get afterbirth out maybe if you haven't seen it yet? Do you know anyone who can get the oxytocin, I've had it on hand for pigs, any other animal keepers nearby?

Offer some willow if you have any as an analgesic, that will help her too.

Tell the vet it's an emergency, call another one if needs be, the sooner you get help the better.

Also, ask for a pessary antibiotic from the vet, instead of/as well as injection, particularly if the vet has to do an internal examination.

[nelson]

Hi ferretkeeper  - the contractions started not long after I took some colostrum from her. she has eaten a good bunch of raspberry leaf/canes, munched  through hay and straw and had a drink. She goes from having a lie down - to getting up and going in the corner to have contractions etc. I have just brought her stable companion back in for company (it is also raining)  .
will call another vet meanwhile will go and cut willow for her.


we usually keep Oxytocin in for our pigs too - but had a gap in the farrowing so haven't ordered any.  Rang a few bods and no one had any. If the vet doesn't make it we do have antibiotics which we use for the pigs so will administered something to keep her undercover  - will have to look up how much though.


Thanks everyone for the posts. Poor mum   

[ferretkeeper]

 

goats are such poor patients, they don't do being ill very well. Good idea to bring her in some company.