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Author Topic: Why are my dogs so needy of me?  (Read 18993 times)

doganjo

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2013, 09:52:57 pm »
The stop whistle/command/voice/hand signs - start close to and even on lead,  and gradually extend distance.  Once a dog is running free it's more difficult to teach this.  It is completely different to the recall.  Dogs that have already been taught the recall find it difficult to stop where they are as they want to come back to you.  It has to be taught separately.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

in the hills

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2013, 10:04:22 pm »
We used to sit dogs, give stay command, walk away but not too far, recall and half way blow the stop whistle. Dog should sit and remain there. Then either walk to dog and praise or call again and praise. Shouldn't be done too often or may interfere with recall.


Also give dogs play command and when they haven't gone too far, blow stop whistle.


These exercises would be for fairly well trained young dogs.

doganjo

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2013, 10:15:23 pm »
Agree, ItH but this is the more advanced stage,  Firstly you need to establish the sit command, then the sit and stay, then increase the distance.  If you put a recall and stop into that too early you will encourage breaking the stay or stickiness.  Alternate the stop on recall with the stay and return.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

SallyintNorth

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2013, 05:21:03 am »
I am sure sheep dogs used to only have the whistle of the owner, rather than a made one,

Some triallists do use their fingers to whistle, yes.  On the whole, working shepherds probably don't - when you're working the sheep for real, your fingers are often not in a suitable state for putting in your mouth!  :o

Having said which, Derek Scrimgeour does use his fingers and although I think he now trials, breeds and trains almost full time, he was for most of his life a working shepherd on the hill.  I must ask him about the dirty fingers and whistling next time I see him!  :D
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SallyintNorth

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2013, 05:23:01 am »

Time for a link to the entertaining but almost certainly highly 'edited'  :-J  Extreme Shepherding
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Alistair

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2013, 08:54:25 am »
Firstly I never used any of this on my working sheepdog, I do this with my other dogs..

I train an emergency stop, basically it's a command to stop the dogs dead in their tracks, it's worked on every dog I've trained except my lurcher George, and I haven't given up on him, what I do is, and I try to do this every day at first, throw a treat over the dog to get some distance from me, then wait till the dog turns to return, as its coming back I throw another treat over their head with my throwing arm ending in a stop signal and say, or shout, depending on distance 'stop', later in the process I do this with the recal command when we are out, I use high value treats for this (roast chicken, not whole ones just pieces)

I've got an acme sheepdog whistle, can't whistle with my fingers, I know with my started sheepdog when I got him I had to learn the whistle tones he'd been started on, I was ok at it but not reliable enough, as we only ever worked in smallish fields I reeled on voice commands, they have incredibly acute hearing

As for training the hoops on poles it was just a ase of breaking it down, first taught the touch command, so the dog touches an object on command, then introduced the biggest ring which I called red, then taught touch, fetch and drop, then, and this takes ages, taught touch whilst holding red on the pole and he eventually worked out to put red on the pole, I then combined all this to the command red, so he'd put red on th e pole as one action, I then did this withe next ring etc, and then did red, blue, green, and viola, if I recall correctly took me about 6 months with a 4yr old dog

Cheviot

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2013, 01:50:04 pm »
Hi,
Quote
Annie, I haven't tried an Acme but the traditional sheepdog whistle is triangular (Google sheepdog whistle to see some.)  Different note(s) and sound pattern per command, and you can use volume and stress to indicate the strength of the command.  It's almost a language in the hands of an experienced shepherd.

However, since I can't use one effectively, I maybe should look at an Acme for one or two simple commands
Sally, you can use an acme whistle, there is a lady called Kim gibson who uses one, I have seen her use it when sheepdog trialling, so they can be used sucessfully, but as you say only for basic commands, I don't think you could use them to tell the dog when you want them to do a big opening out flank, for instance.
What type of shepherds whistle are you using, as I find I struggle to get consistant whistles from some of the plastic whistles, as I tend to bite on them, I don't like any of the metal whistles, as they are cold in your mouth and some of them taste funny, I now use whistles made of horn, which are nice to use.
Regards
Sue
Cheviot, Shetland and Hebridean sheep.

SallyintNorth

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2013, 01:55:02 pm »
Ooo - horn shepherd's whistle...  sounds very interesting!  Lotta money if I can't get a better result on one than on my £1.58 plastic one... :thinking:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

in the hills

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2013, 01:59:27 pm »
Haven't yet read about giving commands with a whistle.


With retrievers it tends to be a single blow for stop and two blows for come towards me.


How many/what commands can you give a collie with a whistle?


My pups breeder said that he used voice commands for close work and whistle for distance work. Is that the norm?


I always used a horn whistle for gundog work. It was a prize in a working test and really liked it. Felt much nicer to use than plastic.


 

SallyintNorth

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2013, 02:04:13 pm »
Sheepdog whistle commands is a good starting point.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2013, 02:50:04 pm »
 :o :o :o :o  I'd have a job learning all of those.

doganjo

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2013, 03:31:12 pm »
Haven't yet read about giving commands with a whistle.

With retrievers it tends to be a single blow for stop and two blows for come towards me.

Most HPRs are one beep for sit NOW, two beeps for TURN - which is also a useful command (they are often hunting 2 to 300 yards out - spaniels hunt within gun range, HPRS/Pointers hunt wide and go on point then the guns move forward to shoot while the game is 'held')), and three beeps to come back.  Trouble with an HPR is unless you know for sure he/she isn't on a firm point you can't expect them to be instant.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

in the hills

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2013, 04:24:57 pm »
Ahhhh ..... that's interesting Doganjo.  I've never seen a HPR dog working .... only seen spaniels flushing.


Do they tend to be used more on moorland?

Cheviot

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2013, 04:46:05 pm »
Hi,
Quote
Ooo - horn shepherd's whistle...  sounds very interesting!  Lotta money if I can't get a better result on one than on my £1.58 plastic one...
Just did a google search for horn whistles, only ones I found were £25.00, I certainly didn't pay that for mine, I have 4 or 5 and for the last one I paid £18.00, I could get through a plastic whistle a week, when I was doing a lot of training young dogs, so I figured £18.00 an investment.
Regaeds
Sue
Cheviot, Shetland and Hebridean sheep.

doganjo

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Re: Why are my dogs so needy of me?
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2013, 05:52:08 pm »
Ahhhh ..... that's interesting Doganjo.  I've never seen a HPR dog working .... only seen spaniels flushing.


Do they tend to be used more on moorland?
The bigger breeds are probably, but they go into really thick cover so any terrain is fine.  Brittanys (he smallest of theHPRs) are expected to work according to whatever terrain is offered - can vary a  lot in France.  They are followed on horseback in USA.  You'll gather from that they are a fast wee dog. ::)
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

 

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