The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: happygolucky on December 31, 2012, 10:21:56 pm
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Hi, just recently my 2, three year old Labs keep crying when they see or hear me, they live in a very cosy lean too, it even has heat and the house where I am has no heating on in the day so its cooooolllld. I must add, I hardly leave them, I take them out for at least an hour and a half each day and am in and out the house all the time, the freezers and laundry is near to them so they are never alone, I think they are OK when I am not around.
My Yellow lab has always been a bit nervy but is excellent as a gun dog, none of them mind bangs or gun fire and all are wonderful at retrieves YET, when I go out she sticks to me like glue when other people are around and when at home she scratches to get to me, when we have a sleep in until around 8 she pulls the wires to the Ariel to get us up.
I want some honest and genuine advice as to how to stop them being so needy, the older female is not at all a problem but the younger ones would be at my side 24/7 if they could and they do everything I say!!
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It sounds counter-intuitiuve, I know, but the advice I was given was to ignore them more. It worked too.
Firstly, get out of the habit of chattering to them every time you pass. (How did I know you do that? ;))
Secondly, never pet them when they come up whinging for fuss. Only pet them when they sit or stand quietly at a respectful distance. They'll learn pretty quick if you're consistent.
Thirdly, try to encourage them to have 'dog time', time when they act like dogs, interacting with other dogs, and not looking to you for instruction or approval.
Of course have time when you do play with them, talk to them and fuss them - but make those times specific, not all the time.
The other thing I was taught and have used ever since was a release word. I use the word 'Relax.' 'Relax' means, 'You are no longer being controlled by me, you are free to do as you please.' Once 'relaxed', ignore the dog until you choose to spend some time with it.
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Just what I thought. I do talk to my dogs a locked and they understand every word I say well just about I tried to make a great for when I've been out because I know that can cause them to be overexcited, But times like when I'm going for a walk my yellow lab Gets frantic, I will ignore how now rather than telling her to calm down.......they had some toys for Christmas & my yellow lab rant icily walkers around with them but only inside....I did wonder if she is crying for them sometimes, my ores are very calm.....my yellow lab is much more highly strung....that "free time " bit I do but I say something less polite...." Go on then...P off" and they do...Sometimes it's easier to see where others are going wrong and you are spot on.........I made them needy :innocent: THANKS
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As SITN says.
Maybe if they are in a position where you appear briefly eg. to the freezers and then disappear they are a bit confused and think you are appearing to deal with them and are expecting their walk, dinner or whatever and then you say a few words and go. Perhaps ignore them and don't eye or speak to them at these times.
I use the word "play" to mean ..... your time, off you go.
Only other thing is maybe more exercise/work/training to satisfy them.
Sorry Happygolucky .....cross posted with you.
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Is the younger one entire?
Red Dog would get stupidly clingy in the run up to her season, peeping and whining 24 hours a day it seemed!
She is still happiest when snuggled up close, but is chilled out now she is spayed!
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Maybe they think they are Brittanys - they leap about all the time until given the release - it's the working heritage. ::) But mine do go and chill out when told to. Only talk to them when you want them to do something or some for a cuddle. They'll get the message and you aren't neglecting them by doing that.
Rohan has a working father and although she isn't worked much herself (not sure if she ever has been as I remember you said she went out with your son-in-law once I think), the blood is hot. Perhaps you need to cut down their protein/fat intake. ???
My Brits have to be kept at 18% and low fat to keep them steady, and the two younger ones are shot over a number of times in the season, as well as training on hunting and retrieving every day. Intake is stepped up a bit on a hard working day.
There could be something in what Colliewoman says so if she isn't already it might be an idea to have her spayed especially as you aren't breeding from her. But that is expensive - just had Belle done and it was about £200.
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Could be hormones too, it's not the expense, we paid a lot less than £200 but did not want them done at the same time and we need her to come into season then 2 mths after she can have the op, so due to come into season, Islay used to be clingy pre season but not so hyper..bitches tend to be emotional when in season.....like us women.....Rohan is still like a pup.........Charlie (stud dogs owner) says she is just like her dad......he recognised the fact that she did not want or feel free to run around but rather stop with me.....although on a training day she is brilliant, pickes up and no messing...we find Rhum the exact opposite....although she too is great at picking up.....they All are going to work.....they all get a lot of excessive too......
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It's been ages since she was in season.....almost a year.......I suppose being around her mum makes her less mature........ours also get practice most days.......not when it's icy......
I will interact less when in and out the house, that's a good idea as Steve only fusses them on his terms and he leaves them alone, and Sally...I do chat to them on walks, all I have to do is say"no, don 't do that and they will not,".They also do and are allowed to run free as well on walks, we have a good routine, they run off on thier own first, then I tell them where to go, and if dogs or people on bikes are around I call them in but when we decided to turn around, they all will walk to heel.........its like majic...
Collie women, I also think its hormones, she caries the toy a lot at the moment, my daughters female used to carry a plastic sausage around when in the run up to her season........
And not too sure lof lowering the protein level, the currently have Dr Johns Gold and seen fine on that.....
Anyway, her sisters are visiting tomorrow.
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Well Happygolucky, they are all different, just like people and maybe she is just like that, some are. If the behaviour is just before she comes into season then neutering may help but not necessarily .... not if she constantly shows that behaviour. My Flattie is slightly obsessed with me and is definitely my dog, though never in an aggressive way. In fact he loves all people and dogs too much ::) . I trained him so I suppose he sees me as pack leader and wants to be near me if possible. Sometimes I do have to tell him that enough is enough and make him go and lie quietly away from me. I am still in touch with his breeder and she has told me that his brother has become quite possessive with his owner (not her but his new owner) .... to the point of showing aggression to other people who approach him. There is obviously a slightly obsessive trait in their line and maybe it is something like this with your younger girl.
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in the hills, as she is a pup I delivered and slept next to for the first few weeks, yes she is my baby!! not shown any aggression but thats what i want to avoid...I better break the behaviour first. Steve, my husband sometimes take them out on his own when he is not at work and I think thats good, if I am around and go back to the car they all come running back to me.......They are all different charactors indeed......My chocolate Lab watches my every move but is less needy....but she does try to wake us up if we ever sleep in, it was funny to see her pull the ariel wire to bag in on our bedroom window.......
I practive retrieves now with all three as Rohan always gets the dummy so Rhum runs to catch her but cannot so then I throw in a ball, I get the dummy back in my hand from Rohan then throw another dummy for Islay, she does not always bring it directly but she has not really been trained to, then I always get the ball back from Rhum...they are funny to watch and very very keen!!
On walks Rhum will bring me any dead thing, even stiff frogs, once I was collecting pine cones and she took one look at me and started collecting them too...I now carry a plastic bag to get my often rotten pressies from her!!
All so different!!
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:roflanim: some of the above posts have been written and auto corrected on my I Pad while I was watching Come dine with me and eating my tea so whoppps!!
hope you all get the idea of what I am on about! ;)
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My OH has always walked Alf .... often more so than me when the children were younger .... still my dog ... I think it's the training that matters. Your OH could do some obedience with her if he is that way inclined it may help. You could try upping their obedience .... that may help too. Can you sit all three together, give stay command and then call dogs to you individually? Clingy one must wait her turn, just like the others. That type of obedience may change her relationship with you a little and the fact that it will reinforce your position as pack leader as well as "mum" would probably help prevent her clinginess developing into any aggression .... if you are a bit concerned that it might become a problem.
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I have never called them individualy.....never thought of that........I will give that a try......while doing this she has come to shuv her toy in my face 2's but I have ignored her.......it's harder to train them all together but we will give that a try......the all sit and stay.........I do,call them inside one at a time if I need to, when Islay had her op I could say "just Islay" and the others would not attempt to come in, same with the others, I can ad do use their names and they know........I must however break the apron strings........even when they are running free, after a while Rohan runs back to touch my hand.....
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I find that while I am at home during the day with my dogs they chill out when I do without me having to say anything but when OH comes home in the evening the pair of them cannot not relax. They are up and down the whole evening. I tell him its because he fusses them to much.
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That sounds the reverse to our situation Sabrina
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I can't imagine getting our three to sit and stay and then call them individually. They all answer to Daisy, Victor, Pirate or Dog. When my OH goes downstairs in the mornings, they stay in their beds until he starts to feed them. When I go down they cluster at the gate to say hello. They will go back to their beds when told though.
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I forgot to try today but they should do fingers crossed....whoops. Superstition :innocent:
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One of my girls is hyper just now - haven't got to the root of why as yet, but decided to go back to my old training regime. They now all have to sit and stay in the kitchen while I open the back door then the conservatory one, put on my shoes, and jacket, then I call them through one by one by name varying which one goes first each time so they don't get into a routine. It seems to be working, Freckles is much calmer today.
I don't know what has happened since I moved down here but I used to take all five out into my fields, let them run as much as they wanted, blew a stop whistle and all five would go flat wherever they were. I have got very lazy! :-[
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I know, you have to be persistent.......last night Steve did not shut them in and Rohan was crying and scratching at the window again so he went out and put her back in with the others.....I am sure it's hormones...the sooner she is spayed the better.
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I don't know what has happened since I moved down here but I used to take all five out into my fields, let them run as much as they wanted, blew a stop whistle and all five would go flat wherever they were. I have got very lazy! :-[
Annie, I only have one dog but I wish I could get him to do that. Any suggestions on how to start?
Sandy, sorry for hijacking your thread
Sally
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No problem, thats what I like, :wave: I do it all the time, ours will sit and stay but again, ROhan did not want to when I went training, the stud dogs owner recognised she wanted to be with me.......she does mix with other dogs and is fine but one main point is she has never left her mum or me!! :)
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Reading this with interest as Murphy is now so clingy to me, its causing issues! If OH tries to take him downstairs and I'm upstairs, he digs his feet in and won't follow. If I'm cooking, he wants to lie on my feet but when I walk to the fridge in the utility room he follows me there and lies on my feet again!!
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Pups are more like that but, I recon he will end up like Rohan, you are his pack leader/mummy ours are fine with Steve on his own but when I am around and he calls them, they run to me, not Islay the oldest but the 2, 3 year olds, they see me as there mum whereas I worked at times when we had Islay. I think they need some time alone, the other thing is if you do not leave them for short periods for a start, they get seperation anxiety, I hope ours don't but I did have a little dog that used to howel if I was out!!
I have just been cleaning the small yard, somthing thats been missed a bit over the holiday, there is scrapped paint all over the place where Rohan has been scraping the window sills, nothing to do with how much excersie at all as we have long walks and yesterday she ran around a lot with her brother and sister, I am trying to ignore her much more now, no interaction today, she was sitting outside the back door as well, the other 2 are fine.
So, too much interaction and being with the dog all the time can cause problems.....I need to get out more :innocent:
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Its nice that they make you feel so special but very frustrating at the same time I bet!!
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Ahh, a bit like children, they cannot leave your side until they get to an age where they are confident.....Rohan spends a lot of time with her mum Islay on walks where as Rhum, does her own thing then walks with me!!!!
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Sally, can you get Archie to do a 'Stay' at all?
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Sally, can you get Archie to do a 'Stay' at all?
He isn't great at it. He will do it sometimes but if there is something more interesting then that ALWAYS takes priority and to be honest most things are more interesting :roflanim:
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Sally, can you get Archie to do a 'Stay' at all?
He isn't great at it. He will do it sometimes but if there is something more interesting then that ALWAYS takes priority and to be honest most things are more interesting :roflanim:
:roflanim: Bless him. He's still a pup, eh.
Do you have a good obedience class you can take him to? My dogs have always absolutely loved doing obedience in class, much to my surprise that they liked being controlled in a hall rather than running around free outside, and (a) the trainers help you get any of the moves you are struggling with and (b) if the dog can do whatever it is there, in a hall with loads of other dogs to provide distractions, it can certainly do it at home.
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Annie, I only have one dog but I wish I could get him to do that. Any suggestions on how to start?
Sandy, sorry for hijacking your thread
Sally
You start with the sit stay at heel, then the down stay also at heel, and gradually build up the distance. I have always used a whistle for training but you need the voice and hand signals established first and add in the whistle when that is sorted.
My GWP was always good at the down and she had the furthest to drop, but the others saw her as pack leader and wouldn't come forward if she was on a down. That's my problem now she is gone I have to be pack leader and Freckles is having difficulty accepting that she isn't the chosen one. My difficulty is being consistent with her as she's the only one of the three I have left that I bred.
John used to be able to take our 8 dogs out in the field and control them all by name and hand signals, I don't have that knack unfortunately. :gloomy:
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Annie, Archie has a problem with down. He just doesn't understand what we mean, despite trying to train him in the way we were taught when he had his few lessons.
Sally, after reading your post I have been googling and found a dog class about 20 mins away that starts next Tuesday evening. They also do agility with a class that is slightly nearer. I will try the obedience first but then, if my poor ankle can manage it, might give the agility class a go a bit later. I think Archie would love that.
thanks to you both
Sally
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Great :thumbsup: Let us know you you both get on! :)
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Dogs do not understand English unfortunately :innocent: You have to show him what he has to do - or better still, whenever you see him laying down say the word you want to use - flat, down, lie or anything else. But always use the same word and try to use it every time you see him lying down. Always have treats in a box on the work tops or tables in each room - where he can't reach them. When he lies down anywhere and you see him and you say the word throw a treat for him - even if it means he gets up again. That can be good as he may go and lie down again and again and you have another opportunity to give the command. It's called positive reinforcement. You could also try using a clicker, but you need to 'charge' the clicker first time so he knows that when you click after a command there will be treats following the click. The click just indicates the end of the exercise.
Charge the clicker by throwing down a few treats and click click click - he'll get the message pretty quick. Good luck
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I found the clicker great, they soon click on :innocent: , I sometimes mess with it in my pocket and they come running when I do not want them too, mind you, my Labs are very very easy to train indeed, its the breed and thier love of food, and if I say "no" even quietly they do not do something like eat poo or go into water or go off.....the only one thing I am working on is Rohan being so needy...that will come in time.
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Just been out with another of our pups thats 2 now and she and the other male lab that was unrelated kept comming to my whistle, the female pup was so like all the others I have met, very very fast and agile!!! I remember one person who bought a pup asked if they would be fast enough to keep up on her horse and wow, that dog is so fast you would swear she was a race dog!!
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Making dogs wait their turn is a good way of taking their obedience up a level. You can sit them all at feed time, put down all their bowls and they must stay and wait until their name is called to come to their bowl. When they go for a walk, they must all sit and be told to stay, leads off and they wait until their name is said and the command "...... go and play" is given. Lots of little exercises like that ...... once they can do them individually of course.
I have to teach BC Meg to lie down and I've never taught that command so had to read how to do it. We never taught our gundogs to lie down ..... I think because you didn't want to encourage them to do that in case they missed a mark.
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I think an awful lot of dogs get confused with the 'down' command as it is so often unintentionally sabotaged by the owner ;)
If I want my dogs to lie down, I tell them 'down' if I want my dogs to get off of something I tell them 'off' or 'floor'.
Every single person that has ever come into my home has, when asking my dogs to get off the sofa said 'down'.
Then get annoyed that the dogs continue to lie there ::)
If you are one of the many that do this, you may well find huge success by going back to the beginning but this time use a new word such as 'flat' like Doganjo :thumbsup:
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'Lie down' for a collie that is to work sheep is a very particular thing and isn't so much to do with the body flat on the ground as to the focus and direction on the sheep - so if you have a collie you may decide to have two commands for this, one for pausing and focussing when working sheep and another for flattening on the ground in any situation (except when working sheep.)
In agility there's a table they have to get onto and lie flat on. A lot of handlers would use 'Table' to direct the dog onto the table, and then 'Lie Down' to tell them to lie down. I just had one command, which meant 'Jump on the table and lie flat on it', which was 'Splat!' My dogs used to love it, they'd leap towards the table, and land flattened with a great thump, making everyone laugh. :D
The place I used to do obedience didn't like coercive techniques, so you were never told to physically place your dog in a 'down', rather you would get it to follow your hand (concealing a treat if you trained with titbits) down from a Sit and forwards. They naturally adopt a prone position if you lead them just right, then you tell them what they are doing and praise them. Gradually they would learn to stay 'down' until you gave them another command. You could tell the people who used physical placement - their dogs cowered into a down with ears flattened. The training technique had left an association of coercion and unhappiness, whereas by only ever doing it as a free movement when their interest was engaged, no such bad association formed and so once they had learned the move they had a lot less resistance to doing it and staying in it.
Earlier in my dog-handling career, I had a dog I had tried to train using placement but, although he was bright and generally obedient, he just didn't seem to be able to get 'Lie down'. Then one time he was wanting a bit of cheese, and I made him do some moves to earn it. In quick succession I asked for Sit - Come - Stay - Come - Lie Down. He was intent on the cheese, he was in the mode of being obedient to earn the cheese, without thinking as I said, "Lie Down", he flopped to the ground. As he went down you could see his brain registering, "Uh-oh... I'm not supposed to know this one!" :D
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Doesn't matter what words you use. You can use ying tong for sit and pipplepoo for lying down if you want to :roflanim: - so long as you always use the same word. There are traditions in collies like 'away to me' and 'come bye' and stuff like that but the dog doesn't understand any words until it's been taught the meaning.
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Re training obedience dogs, I've always taught basics with hand signals, the voice command being secondary, so to teach sit, I have a treat in my hand, I raise my index finger above their nose, when they sit I rotate my hand so the muzzle has to go in a downwards motion for them to get it and reward, I use sit as the command, you can introduce down by pointing to the floor and lowering your hand with the dog following. The advantages are, as I see it, you have two ways of command signal and noise, and most importantly, it's a Doddle, to teach th wait command, you just leave the reward longer changing the hand signal to, in our case, a flat palm vertically and use wait in gradually increasing increments.
I used to be able to complete an obedience test without uttering a sound.
You can train a dog to do most anything if you just break down all the movements into small steps and teach them and then reassemble the building blocks in the order you want.
Harry, my last collie, sadly no longer with us, used to be able to complete one of those hoops on a pole kids toys with the rings in the right order, took AGES to teach him, and probably the most rewarding trick I've ever taught a dog, now (he says looking at the current pack of reprobates sleeping on the couch) where did I put that bag of toys......
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Doesn't matter what words you use. You can use ying tong for sit and pipplepoo for lying down if you want to :roflanim: - so long as you always use the same word. There are traditions in collies like 'away to me' and 'come bye' and stuff like that but the dog doesn't understand any words until it's been taught the meaning.
Annie, I totally agree with you; dogs do not understand English words and any sounds work as commands, whatever suits the handler.
I wasn't saying that the syllables 'Lie Down' were sacrosanct, I was trying - clearly not very successfully! :D - to indicate that the concept of a 'Lie Down' command has a very specific and different meaning in working collies on sheep to the meaning it has to a pet dog owner, and that if you are new to working a collie on sheep, it is a good idea to hang fire on teaching a Lie Down in the absence of sheep until you understand its use in work.
Alistair, I used to love to be able to command my dogs by signal too. Like jaykay, I use two arms upraised to mean 'come here any dog that can see me' :) However, I have had to curb my use of handsignals with the working collies - you absolutely do not want a collie controlling sheep to have to look away from the sheep to see if you are offering any advice, s/he needs to keep his/her beadies fixed on and mesmerising those sheep. Sadly, although I can make the sheepdog whistles make sound, I cannot reliably reproduce the same sounds, so have been unable to get the dogs onto whistled commands, which would have been much more satisfactory on many many counts.
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Are you only allowed to use specific whistle types on sheepdogs? I use an acme 211.5 - most HPR handlers use this as it carries a great distance. we use different combinations of 'beep' to convey what we mean.
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I practice the whistle in the car
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I practice the whistle in the car
Alistair, I've driven all over the country playing Three Blind Mice and other simple tunes on my sheepdog whistle, but I still can't reliably produce the same sound for Come Bye... ::)
Annie, I haven't tried an Acme but the traditional sheepdog whistle is triangular (Google sheepdog whistle to see some.) Different note(s) and sound pattern per command, and you can use volume and stress to indicate the strength of the command. It's almost a language in the hands of an experienced shepherd.
However, since I can't use one effectively, I maybe should look at an Acme for one or two simple commands... :thinking:
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SITN - That was great. Thank you. Such a wealth of knowledge on here and getting me thinking before I'm at the stage where I've made too many mistakes ..... poor Meg.
My neighbour and I were discussing the differences with training sheepdogs compared to gundogs. If a gundog is on an unseen retrieve (a blind), you know that you are getting there when they turn to look at you for your hand signal without you blowing the stop whistle first (asking them to stop and look at you for direction). They understand themselves that they need some help and that you are there to give it. My neighbour has a young dog with what he considers a fault at present ...... looking at him and eyes off the sheep. Will have to remember not to wave my hands around :o ::)
Doganjo - did read that the traditional shepherds commands are almost musical and that it was believed the dog listened more to this type of command ??? Couldn't tell you if this is true or not.
Alistair - Seen collies doing that on T.V. Exactly how did you train your collie to do it?
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Funny how dogs do seem to learn lots of words and often they copy the sound you are making, if its easy.....there are loads of funny "I love my mamam" video clips, I often used voice commands with my hand commands but now use the whistle to get them back or get then to sit. They will stop if next to me but do come back instead of stop, when I blow the whistle when they not so near...working on that one as I think the stop command is very important indeed.
I am sure sheep dogs used to only have the whistle of the owner, rather than a made one, I remember my father in law saying some strange stuff to his dogs and Phil Drabble, I used to love that programme, One man and his dog!!!
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The stop whistle/command/voice/hand signs - start close to and even on lead, and gradually extend distance. Once a dog is running free it's more difficult to teach this. It is completely different to the recall. Dogs that have already been taught the recall find it difficult to stop where they are as they want to come back to you. It has to be taught separately.
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We used to sit dogs, give stay command, walk away but not too far, recall and half way blow the stop whistle. Dog should sit and remain there. Then either walk to dog and praise or call again and praise. Shouldn't be done too often or may interfere with recall.
Also give dogs play command and when they haven't gone too far, blow stop whistle.
These exercises would be for fairly well trained young dogs.
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Agree, ItH but this is the more advanced stage, Firstly you need to establish the sit command, then the sit and stay, then increase the distance. If you put a recall and stop into that too early you will encourage breaking the stay or stickiness. Alternate the stop on recall with the stay and return.
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I am sure sheep dogs used to only have the whistle of the owner, rather than a made one,
Some triallists do use their fingers to whistle, yes. On the whole, working shepherds probably don't - when you're working the sheep for real, your fingers are often not in a suitable state for putting in your mouth! :o
Having said which, Derek Scrimgeour does use his fingers and although I think he now trials, breeds and trains almost full time, he was for most of his life a working shepherd on the hill. I must ask him about the dirty fingers and whistling next time I see him! :D
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Time for a link to the entertaining but almost certainly highly 'edited' :-J Extreme Shepherding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OE6HgK9NjQ#)
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Firstly I never used any of this on my working sheepdog, I do this with my other dogs..
I train an emergency stop, basically it's a command to stop the dogs dead in their tracks, it's worked on every dog I've trained except my lurcher George, and I haven't given up on him, what I do is, and I try to do this every day at first, throw a treat over the dog to get some distance from me, then wait till the dog turns to return, as its coming back I throw another treat over their head with my throwing arm ending in a stop signal and say, or shout, depending on distance 'stop', later in the process I do this with the recal command when we are out, I use high value treats for this (roast chicken, not whole ones just pieces)
I've got an acme sheepdog whistle, can't whistle with my fingers, I know with my started sheepdog when I got him I had to learn the whistle tones he'd been started on, I was ok at it but not reliable enough, as we only ever worked in smallish fields I reeled on voice commands, they have incredibly acute hearing
As for training the hoops on poles it was just a ase of breaking it down, first taught the touch command, so the dog touches an object on command, then introduced the biggest ring which I called red, then taught touch, fetch and drop, then, and this takes ages, taught touch whilst holding red on the pole and he eventually worked out to put red on the pole, I then combined all this to the command red, so he'd put red on th e pole as one action, I then did this withe next ring etc, and then did red, blue, green, and viola, if I recall correctly took me about 6 months with a 4yr old dog
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Hi,
Annie, I haven't tried an Acme but the traditional sheepdog whistle is triangular (Google sheepdog whistle to see some.) Different note(s) and sound pattern per command, and you can use volume and stress to indicate the strength of the command. It's almost a language in the hands of an experienced shepherd.
However, since I can't use one effectively, I maybe should look at an Acme for one or two simple commands
Sally, you can use an acme whistle, there is a lady called Kim gibson who uses one, I have seen her use it when sheepdog trialling, so they can be used sucessfully, but as you say only for basic commands, I don't think you could use them to tell the dog when you want them to do a big opening out flank, for instance.
What type of shepherds whistle are you using, as I find I struggle to get consistant whistles from some of the plastic whistles, as I tend to bite on them, I don't like any of the metal whistles, as they are cold in your mouth and some of them taste funny, I now use whistles made of horn, which are nice to use.
Regards
Sue
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Ooo - horn shepherd's whistle... sounds very interesting! Lotta money if I can't get a better result on one than on my £1.58 plastic one... :thinking:
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Haven't yet read about giving commands with a whistle.
With retrievers it tends to be a single blow for stop and two blows for come towards me.
How many/what commands can you give a collie with a whistle?
My pups breeder said that he used voice commands for close work and whistle for distance work. Is that the norm?
I always used a horn whistle for gundog work. It was a prize in a working test and really liked it. Felt much nicer to use than plastic.
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Sheepdog whistle commands (http://www.sheepdogwhistle.com/sounds3.html) is a good starting point.
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:o :o :o :o I'd have a job learning all of those.
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Haven't yet read about giving commands with a whistle.
With retrievers it tends to be a single blow for stop and two blows for come towards me.
Most HPRs are one beep for sit NOW, two beeps for TURN - which is also a useful command (they are often hunting 2 to 300 yards out - spaniels hunt within gun range, HPRS/Pointers hunt wide and go on point then the guns move forward to shoot while the game is 'held')), and three beeps to come back. Trouble with an HPR is unless you know for sure he/she isn't on a firm point you can't expect them to be instant.
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Ahhhh ..... that's interesting Doganjo. I've never seen a HPR dog working .... only seen spaniels flushing.
Do they tend to be used more on moorland?
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Hi,
Ooo - horn shepherd's whistle... sounds very interesting! Lotta money if I can't get a better result on one than on my £1.58 plastic one...
Just did a google search for horn whistles, only ones I found were £25.00, I certainly didn't pay that for mine, I have 4 or 5 and for the last one I paid £18.00, I could get through a plastic whistle a week, when I was doing a lot of training young dogs, so I figured £18.00 an investment.
Regaeds
Sue
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Ahhhh ..... that's interesting Doganjo. I've never seen a HPR dog working .... only seen spaniels flushing.
Do they tend to be used more on moorland?
The bigger breeds are probably, but they go into really thick cover so any terrain is fine. Brittanys (he smallest of theHPRs) are expected to work according to whatever terrain is offered - can vary a lot in France. They are followed on horseback in USA. You'll gather from that they are a fast wee dog. ::)
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We took ours out working for the first time and they were OK, not brill as we were told to put them in some cover to flush out the pheasants and they ran out that bit into the woods with the other dogs, not bad as we were well behind the line but, after that we put them back on the lead, great news is, some one saw the potential in our choice lab and is going to offer free lessons and also wants to breed a litter from her with their stud as they want more good choclate Labs as gun dogs, both mine and theirs are fantastical laid back strong dogs health checks and all etc.....he is a relative to my yellow who is already a great dog!!!! So excited indeed!!!! Wish I had taken up working them sooner!!
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SITN I loved that video although I agree it must have been highly edited. Clever though.
I've never worked a dog but did have one who was from working parents and the instinct was very strong in her. Our local shepherd often said, "That dog should be working." and a friend whose husband worked sheep kept trying to persuade me to part with her. As we had a craft workshop, we had to leave our drive gates open for people who couldn't walk the 150 yards to the house (ie most of the lazy ****) so the hill sheep would wander in. I've watched Lass nose to nose with one on our lawn. As soon as she was told "Go." she would chase the sheep up the drive but always stopped at the gate and watched them go sown the track. She knew the word Sheep as well.
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:roflanim: ours know the word sausage just as well!!!
I have not been near any sheep with our Labs but I pretty much think they would not run in with them, but then again, if one went and I did not stop her, the others may follow and then get excited so I tend to avoid sheep....thats easy as there are loads of sheep free places here, trouble is for walkers with dogs, unless you have been on the walk before you never know, I love the sheep warning signs, I think they are just whats needed but I suppose as farmers move thier sheep they do not want the extra bit of trouble of putting up notices, then if people see the notice and no sheep they will ignore other ones....a warning sign to me is good though!!
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We took ours out working for the first time and they were OK, not brill as we were told to put them in some cover to flush out the pheasants and they ran out that bit into the woods with the other dogs, not bad as we were well behind the line but, after that we put them back on the lead, great news is, some one saw the potential in our choice lab and is going to offer free lessons and also wants to breed a litter from her with their stud as they want more good choclate Labs as gun dogs, both mine and theirs are fantastical laid back strong dogs health checks and all etc.....he is a relative to my yellow who is already a great dog!!!! So excited indeed!!!! Wish I had taken up working them sooner!!
I remember saying Rhum would be a good working dog when I saw her at 8 weeks. She kept her eyes on us the whole time. I think she's a great little dog. I know many working folk don't like chocolates - supposedly they are not very clever, but any I have met would definitely put them right where that is concerned. Rhum's a smart dog.
I'm surprised the Shoot Captain asked you to send Labs in to flush, that's usually the job of the Spaniels. Labs usually only have to hunt when the fall isn't marked or it's a runner, and are usually sat at a peg, or walked at heel.
Spaniels are the Keepers' preferred breeds for hunting but I suppose they maybe didn't have any with them..
I'm sure Rhum'll be a great mum and produce super working pups. A good age for her first litter too.
I'm glad our shoot is reasonably flat, I'm not fit any more for our usual shoots on the moors.
Agree with you about the warning signs being a good idea, but as you say, it's extra work for farmers. I'm not usually near sheep either though.
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:farmer: here. Farming a World Heritage Site / National Trail now and previously in Northumberland National Park, I can tell you that any kind of stock warning sign is very much frowned upon.
The Park put up generic 'Lambing time' warning signs at the leaving-a-road point for public footpaths in April and take them down early May. More than that we are requested to not do, as they don't want anything that looks as though we're discouraging tourists.
When there was a foot and mouth outbreak in 2007, English Heritage wouldn't allow us to put out disinfectant for the tourists to wash their boots and wheels. :rant:
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Cannot see any rhyme or reason for not putting up signs unless it too difficult to.
There were loads of spaniels, we were on the far end of the line and there was a bit of rough ground, good cover for birds, the rest were next to us in the woods, for some reason another chap took the field and we had to cover the edge of the forest so when asked to send them in the field they came back to us and then ran into the forest with the other dogs...not sure why they other chap took no notice, quite possibly a bit easier on foot as it was just a field.
I was certainly put to test Anne, I started the last person to get in line and I just happened to get the bit in the field where all the cattle stand, after that it was deep bog, I got stuck and had to have some help being pulled out due to my short fat legs and weak muscle not being enough to get them out, thankfully I had very good boots, my treat when I had some TAX back, that made me last all the time, I often got the worse bit as well but, strangely loved it all, every bit, bogs, hills, trees, brambles the lot....not forgetting the port and pie and lovely food....and the pheasants!! :eyelashes:
A good friend trains gun dog and also uses them, I took Rhum training and they loved her, although she gave me a " No, you go and fetch it" look when she had to jump a ditch!! Rohan, however fetched everything and was brilliant but hated the feathers, so, I am making a nice dummy with the pheasont feathers tomorrow!!
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You could get a rabbit skin for about £7 for Sporting Saint - enough to cover a dummy and two tennis balls. I did that, but I have one sitting waiting to be used that the Rio the cat took home. Look out for a dead bunny on the road too. Just leave them fur side down on newspaper or kitchen paper, covered in salt for a good while - out of reach of marauders of course :innocent: ;D That cupboard beside the kitchen would be a good place.
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I have some nice feathers too now...some suggested putting them in a sock...I will do that and also find a way to fasten the tail feathers, they are very keen to take them!!
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Ooo - horn shepherd's whistle... sounds very interesting! Lotta money if I can't get a better result on one than on my £1.58 plastic one... :thinking:
Hmmm, I struggle with a plastic one - I can whistle and vary the pitch, but I always end up squishing it a bit or clogging it with spit..
May be time for a more expensive one.