Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: fox control  (Read 16742 times)

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: fox control
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2012, 05:43:41 am »
We bought a trap to catch the fox that was coming in during the day and taking our chickens but all we caught were badgers. Letting them go was scarey, have you seen their teeth ? In the end David my farmer friend shot it when it tried to get his cats. We think it was a hand reared fox that someone released back into the countryside as it had no fear of people at all.

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: fox control
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2012, 09:57:51 am »
Agree SIN see my post above. Gun ownership and use should not be enterd into lightly and all the rules surrounding them MUST be obeyed.
mandy :pig:

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: fox control
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 11:22:02 pm »
Sally, while I have hunted the perimeter fence of Luton Airport - and seeing an EasyJet 737 taking off less than 100m away was completely surreal but didn't bother the horses - the hunt is not going where the offending vixen lives.  Far too many people looking... ;)


This one has had all our chickens three times and removed 18 of the 20 carcasses over half a mile.  She knows what she's doing and she's a repeat offender.  But it won't be me but a local marksman.  Frankly I'm less bothered about her than the traffic on the trunk road she crosses to get here.  Taking out the odd Vectra in error would be a problem  ???




Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: fox control
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 03:12:38 am »
I hear ya, SF ;)

I have no problem with a marksman - or woman - shooting a fox, provided they have a dog or dogs at hand in case of wounding it. 

My issue is with unskilled gunmen or women taking pot shots at animals they are far more likely to wing than kill  :rant:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: fox control
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2012, 09:41:42 am »
I can't see people being granted a license for a .243 or whatever unless the firearms officer thought they were competent and the land was passed for its use.

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: fox control
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 10:05:42 am »
Round here that goes for the .22 as well.  Basically the firearms officer wants a very good reason why he should stick his neck out and let you endanger the public.  However, since he hands out shotgun certificates like confetti the risk is that people use them on a fox because its what they have rather than need.
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: fox control
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 12:50:21 am »
Well thats because, legally when you apply for a shotgun certificate, it is your right to have one and the police must prove why you shouldn't be granted one in order to refuse one, wheras with rifles the opposite is true and you have to prove why you should be granted one.

Fronhaul

  • Joined Jun 2011
    • Fronhaul Farm
Re: fox control
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 05:47:32 pm »
Have to agree with Sally though.  It is so easy to wound a fox rather than killing it unless you really know what you are doing.   Last time there was a fox shoot here earlier in the year I think we had around 12 guns with terriers and gun dogs and they really knew what they were doing.  The alternative is to find someone skilled in calling the foxes in which case you don't need so many people but you do need someone who is totally reliable.  Calling the foxes usually means a close range kill but it takes considerable skill and patience.

I was taught to shoot as soon as I was old enough to fire a 20 bore by a gunmaker but even after all these years I wouldn't contemplate going after foxes unless I had been practising very regularly and was confident I wasn't going to wound one. 

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: fox control
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2012, 04:46:32 pm »
Have to agree with Sally though.  It is so easy to wound a fox rather than killing it unless you really know what you are doing.   Last time there was a fox shoot here earlier in the year I think we had around 12 guns with terriers and gun dogs and they really knew what they were doing.  The alternative is to find someone skilled in calling the foxes in which case you don't need so many people but you do need someone who is totally reliable.  Calling the foxes usually means a close range kill but it takes considerable skill and patience.

I was taught to shoot as soon as I was old enough to fire a 20 bore by a gunmaker but even after all these years I wouldn't contemplate going after foxes unless I had been practising very regularly and was confident I wasn't going to wound one.


All you need to call a fox is a piece of polystyrene and your landrover window.  ;)


That shoot sounds like it was a shotgun based fox shoot - its a totally different ballgame to rifle shooting foxes. I would only shoot a fox with a 12ga at close range with BBs, say. I have some in the cupboard on the off chance I catch him sniffing round the henhouse.

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: fox control
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2012, 07:20:48 pm »
I would only shoot a fox with a 12ga at close range with BBs, say. I have some in the cupboard on the off chance I catch him sniffing round the henhouse.
I have some 42g no.3 cartridges for the same purpose.  Close range with a shotgun is well less than ten yards. With a rifle my local rat catcher seems to like 50-75 yards
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

Catweazle

  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: fox control
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 12:03:35 am »
A 22LR ( Long Rifle ) rimfire is a great rifle for rabbits,  but marginal for fox.  It is commonly used with sub-sonic ammunition,  this means the bullet is travelling slower than the speed of sound ( at about 1050 Feet Per Second ) and thus doesn't produce the "crack" by breaking the sound barrier.  The slow speed of the subsonic bullet means the trajectory is pronounced and power is limited,  so use it for rabbits up to about 70 yards ( with practice ). Power is measured in Foot Pounds Energy,  a UK legal air rifle must produce less than 12fpe,  the 22LR with subsonic ammunition produces about 100fpe.  High velocity ammunition is also available which produces up to 200fpe,  this would be more suitable for fox but only at close range.

The next step up is the 17HMR,  this is also a rimfire so ammunition is quite cheap.  The HMR bullet is smaller and lighter than the 22LR,  but it travels a lot faster at about 2550 FPS and causes more damage.  It's very humane on rabbits and useable on fox up to about 100yds.  It's easier to use than the 22LR because the faster bullet has a flatter trajectory and is slightly less affected by wind.  Many people will tell you that the small HMR bullet is blown around by the wind more than the 22LR bullet,  but they are wrong.  The HMR produces approx 275fpe.

A less common rimfire is the 22WMR ( Winchester Magnum Rimfire ).  This fires a similar sized bullet to the 22LR,  but a lot faster.  The bullets are all faster than the speed of sound,  so make quite a sonic crack.  The trajectory is not as flat as the HMR,  and is more affected by wind,  however is makes typically 340fpe and will cleanly kill a fox at 100yds.

Rimfire rifles are great vermin rifles,  the ammunition is relatively cheap,  but the power is limited because the rimfire case cannot stand a lot of pressure.

If you want to get a rifle specifically for fox or for regular fox control then you need a centrefire rifle.  The smallest calibre commonly used is the 22 Hornet,  the ammunition can be bought and reloaded quite cheaply but in my opinion if you're going to get a centrefire for fox you may as well get one that will allow you to do so at longer range,  so I reckon a 223 or better still a 22-250 is your best bet.

Of course none of these are worth squit if you can't hit the target and that means hitting a small area of the fox / rabbit that will ensure a humane kill.  You can learn the basics of marksmanship with an air rifle,  but perhaps a better idea would be to apply for membership of a rifle club.  There is a statutory 6 month probationary period during which you will get to use a club rifle and benefit from loads of people who will teach you how to shoot.  You don't actually have to join the club,  you can apply for your FAC on a vermin condition,  but you will definitely benefit from the tuition and advice in a safe environment.

If you decide not to pursue this route you can always join a shooting forum online,  there will be no shortage of people who will be happy to kill your foxes for free if you allow them to take a few rabbits for the pot too.

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: fox control
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 04:47:48 pm »
Thank you.  That was remarkably clear


I know all proper hobbies and professions surround themselves with jargon to keep out interlopers but shooters really seems to take the biscuit.  Whenever you think you're starting to understand it they drop inches and talk millimetres.  Or grains.  Or joules.
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

Canadian Sheepfarmer

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • Manitoba, Canada.
Re: fox control
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 06:57:08 pm »
I know a professional trapper near  here who will come and electronically call and shoot coyotes. They are far more destructive than foxes and they work in packs. Oddly enough we do have red foxes too, but nobody worries about them, so destructive are the coyotes.
 
One time he was stretching a coyote pelt, he sells them at the fur auctions, and we heard a ping ping sound on the floor of the hut as he stretched the skin. It was .22 bullets that had been fired at the animal at various times in its life, about 15 in total, all varying ages. Not enough to kill a running animal but enough to cause it considerable pain I would think.
 
As to getting gun clubs in on your land to shoot for you, I think on balance I would rather have the coyotes. ;)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 06:59:38 pm by Canadian Sheepfarmer »

Catweazle

  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: fox control
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 09:52:26 pm »
Thank you.  That was remarkably clear


I know all proper hobbies and professions surround themselves with jargon to keep out interlopers but shooters really seems to take the biscuit.  Whenever you think you're starting to understand it they drop inches and talk millimetres.  Or grains.  Or joules.

The most difficult thing for a newcomer to grasp is how shooters refer to different cartridges.  For example a .22LR,  .22 Hornet and 22-250 are all nominal .22" bore,  but very different cartridges with very different capabilities.  Then they call the same cartridge by metric and imperial names,  .308 = 7.62mm ,  .223 = 5.56mm,  then you have 7.62 x 39,  7.62 x 51,  7.62 x 54 etc. etc. depending on case length.

Then there's the British way,  just make up a number,  .303 has a bore size of .311 so is actually bigger than the .308 calibre.

Anyway,  enough jargon,  if you have any questions please feel free to ask on forum or via PM and I'll do my best to help.

Roadkill

  • Joined Dec 2012
Re: fox control
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2012, 02:13:16 am »
Been reading this with interest and I have to ask.... is there a maximum calibre or anything you are limited to in the U.K.? Also is there a limit on how many rounds your magazine is allowed to hold? Or is it more a case of your weapon has to be suitable for the size of area you will be using it in?

 

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