NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Supplements in small quantities  (Read 6675 times)

teddyandtumnus

  • Joined Nov 2012
Supplements in small quantities
« on: November 10, 2012, 08:48:29 am »
I have two pygmy wethers who are showing signs of copper and/or selenium deficiency in that their coats are fading from black to brown and they have lost hair from their legs. I would like to give them a supplement or bolus to counteract this but can only find these in huge quantities at great expense. Does anyone know where I might get these in smaller doses or would anyone be willing to sell me doses enough for two small goats?

Many thanks x
Voss Electric Fence

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 08:37:39 pm »
You can buy Capprivite in quite small quantities, and it should last you a while. I am pretty certain there are NO boluses suitable for goats, and especially not pigmy ones.
Before starting to give them huge doses of any supplement I would get a blood test done to make sure you are covering the right trace elements.
Heel mange can also lead to them loosing their coats on their legs from the heels upwards, so you need to make sure that it is not that.

wytsend

  • Joined Oct 2010
  • Okehampton
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 06:27:24 pm »
Caprivite does NOT contain sufficient copper & Zinc for goats......when this supplement first appeared, there waslittle information about caprine needs.    Now research shows that goats require almost the same levels as a cow.
You might want to look at Brinicombe's Goat Feed Balancer.....yes it is a little more expensive but does address the correct mineral/trace elemnts needed.
Unlike sheep,  goats can get rid of surplus elements not needed.   You can buy various blocks..... but these depend upon goats using them and not all will.   
John Matthews   ... BGS Vet.... does not reccomend the use of bolus' for goats because of the very delicate nature of the construction of the throat tissue....very easy to tear.
All in all....you will be offered many opinions....I personally would not use anything else these days than Brinicombe's supplement.

kja

  • Joined Oct 2012
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 06:49:35 am »
Caprivite does NOT contain sufficient copper & Zinc for goats......when this supplement first appeared, there waslittle information about caprine needs.    Now research shows that goats require almost the same levels as a cow.
You might want to look at Brinicombe's Goat Feed Balancer.....yes it is a little more expensive but does address the correct mineral/trace elemnts needed.
Unlike sheep,  goats can get rid of surplus elements not needed.   You can buy various blocks..... but these depend upon goats using them and not all will.   
John Matthews   ... BGS Vet.... does not reccomend the use of bolus' for goats because of the very delicate nature of the construction of the throat tissue....very easy to tear.
All in all....you will be offered many opinions....I personally would not use anything else these days than Brinicombe's supplement.

caprivite is and has been a excellent product offering a induvidual mix for dairy, pygmys etc. with statements like this i am not surprised caprivite boss was jumping up and down in last months BGS journal.
we can still learn if we are willing to listen.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 06:58:23 am »
I use both and can't say I notice huge differences between them. Also, running another product down like this on a public forum could be legally challengeable, you'd have to have some pretty sound evidence.

T&T, I'd give your goats a good mineral supplement, whichever you decide on, but maybe get them checked out too, as Anke suggests, there could be other things going on there.

Whereabouts are you, maybe one of us is local to you and can help with a bit of mineral for now?

wytsend

  • Joined Oct 2010
  • Okehampton
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 07:50:35 am »
I am NOT running another product down..... it is very suitable for areas that are not copper deficient.  I was merely saying that research has moved on..... the origical formulation of Caprivite may nolonger meet the needs of some goats.    Caprivite has been out a long time and was a godsend at the start.......but other products are out there addressing issues not previously covered.
I apologise if people thought I was rubbishing Caprivite.......interestingly I do have evidence of of the inclusions in most mineral products avalable suitable for goats.

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
    • Facebook
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 08:21:51 am »
I agree that we need to be careful with what is said about one product against another on a public forum, I know you have been involved with the research into Brinicombes from the start Wytsend and as such, you feel quite passionate about how it can help goats but it would be awful if people associated your name on their website with comments that could be construed negatively against a competitor after all of your hard work  :bouquet:

Everyones needs will differ depending on where they are based, our cobalt issue was dealt with by a mineral supplement that is neither caprivite or brinicombes. I am relatively new to goat keeping but would support Anke's suggestion of finding out what they are short of and then basing the choice of mineral upon the clinical findings.
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

kja

  • Joined Oct 2012
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 08:26:44 am »
I am NOT running another product down..... it is very suitable for areas that are not copper deficient.  I was merely saying that research has moved on..... the origical formulation of Caprivite may nolonger meet the needs of some goats.    Caprivite has been out a long time and was a godsend at the start.......but other products are out there addressing issues not previously covered.
I apologise if people thought I was rubbishing Caprivite.......interestingly I do have evidence of of the inclusions in most mineral products avalable suitable for goats.

from what i have read and understand caprivite have kept on the ball and the product sold in 2012 is not the same as it was in the early days they offer a fantastic product my parents have used it since day 1 and would not consider changing.

your post over the last few months have been misleading imo some have said goat balancer is the only product on the market capritive has been put down a few times and it comes across as goat balancer is the one fix wonder for all goat requirements, after reading the article in the journal caprivite pointed out some very good points about the sweeping statements being made.
we can still learn if we are willing to listen.

wytsend

  • Joined Oct 2010
  • Okehampton
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 09:15:06 am »
Everybody has an opinion and one size does not fit all.
Different parts od the country require different fixes.
I am in no way connected to Brinicombe's.
I do not intend to comment further  but I wiuld respectfully suggest you compare the breakdowns of all mineral supplements commonly in use for goats and use the one most suited to your area

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2012, 09:18:37 am »
I am using Caprivite and my goats are doing well - I milk record and show them. It is good all round and (as far as I know)  does not contain animal by-products which I object to in goat feed.
As a trained scientist I can also say that NONE of the goat feed supplements will have been rigourously tested for their preformance improvements compared to others or not using any. There are just not enough goats around to develop viable statistics and all herds are kept individually and different from each other. So there is a lot of subjectivity around as to what individuals perceive as an improvement and it all depends on what you want to get out of your animals.
Feed supplements/drenches/powders seem to be all the rage at the moment, there are loads available for sheep and cattle too...

Mad Goatwoman of Madeley

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2012, 04:32:22 pm »
I used to use just a mineral lick but have been using Brinicombe's.  My goats have been no different since I changed so it's back to the mineral lick as it's much cheaper.  I wouldn't begrudge the money if it helped them but it didn't.  I have heard others rave about it though so I think it is very individual.

I must live in an area of high copper as I am not using the red one and they are fine, except they don't run on pasture and I assume that is what is affected.  I don't know how I can find out about the copper content in the area.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2012, 04:47:58 pm »
Re: Mineral deficiences - if your goats are thriving with the normal yellow Rockie (that's what mine have) and given a balanced diet (dairy nuts, mix etc etc) also including different branches, hay from different sources, fruit and veg I wouldn't worry. Mine only get the Caprivite once a week, plus also garlic, linseeds and some seaweed granules.
I think sometimes we can "over"worry about doing all the right things, or not doing enough...

sokel

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Jun 2012
  • S W northumberland
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2012, 08:12:01 pm »
Tbh i tend to just give rockies but in the buckets they always have bananas then 2-3 other fruit/veg aswell as whole oats ,mix ,alfa A, dairy nuts when they are eating them , a few grains andsugar beet
Then a sprinkle of garlic powder and seaweed and all are fit and healthy
Graham

Chris H

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2012, 11:57:58 am »
Sokel, where do you ge the garlic and seaweed powders? would love to add this to my goat feed?
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Supplements in small quantities
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2012, 01:22:31 pm »
Sokel, where do you ge the garlic and seaweed powders? would love to add this to my goat feed?
In the horsey section at your feed merchants. NAF do them, quite expensive, but don't need much and so last ages...

 

Hard Feed Quantities for Meat Goats

Started by ScotsGirl

Replies: 4
Views: 1484
Last post September 11, 2012, 09:29:39 am
by colliewoman
Copper supplements

Started by angie

Replies: 13
Views: 2557
Last post August 07, 2018, 01:00:53 am
by Penninehillbilly
Sugarbeet and feed supplements

Started by countrywoman

Replies: 19
Views: 6274
Last post December 06, 2011, 11:13:51 pm
by Mad Goatwoman of Madeley
Arthritis in ankles? Supplements?

Started by Tree Farmer

Replies: 3
Views: 247
Last post April 01, 2019, 11:33:43 pm
by Scarlet.Dragon
Copper & Trace Element supplements for Dairy Goats

Started by Mays

Replies: 9
Views: 3685
Last post April 12, 2015, 02:19:04 pm
by Mays

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Little Peckers

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2019. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS