The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: teddyandtumnus on November 10, 2012, 08:48:29 am
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I have two pygmy wethers who are showing signs of copper and/or selenium deficiency in that their coats are fading from black to brown and they have lost hair from their legs. I would like to give them a supplement or bolus to counteract this but can only find these in huge quantities at great expense. Does anyone know where I might get these in smaller doses or would anyone be willing to sell me doses enough for two small goats?
Many thanks x
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You can buy Capprivite in quite small quantities, and it should last you a while. I am pretty certain there are NO boluses suitable for goats, and especially not pigmy ones.
Before starting to give them huge doses of any supplement I would get a blood test done to make sure you are covering the right trace elements.
Heel mange can also lead to them loosing their coats on their legs from the heels upwards, so you need to make sure that it is not that.
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Caprivite does NOT contain sufficient copper & Zinc for goats......when this supplement first appeared, there waslittle information about caprine needs. Now research shows that goats require almost the same levels as a cow.
You might want to look at Brinicombe's Goat Feed Balancer.....yes it is a little more expensive but does address the correct mineral/trace elemnts needed.
Unlike sheep, goats can get rid of surplus elements not needed. You can buy various blocks..... but these depend upon goats using them and not all will.
John Matthews ... BGS Vet.... does not reccomend the use of bolus' for goats because of the very delicate nature of the construction of the throat tissue....very easy to tear.
All in all....you will be offered many opinions....I personally would not use anything else these days than Brinicombe's supplement.
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Caprivite does NOT contain sufficient copper & Zinc for goats......when this supplement first appeared, there waslittle information about caprine needs. Now research shows that goats require almost the same levels as a cow.
You might want to look at Brinicombe's Goat Feed Balancer.....yes it is a little more expensive but does address the correct mineral/trace elemnts needed.
Unlike sheep, goats can get rid of surplus elements not needed. You can buy various blocks..... but these depend upon goats using them and not all will.
John Matthews ... BGS Vet.... does not reccomend the use of bolus' for goats because of the very delicate nature of the construction of the throat tissue....very easy to tear.
All in all....you will be offered many opinions....I personally would not use anything else these days than Brinicombe's supplement.
caprivite is and has been a excellent product offering a induvidual mix for dairy, pygmys etc. with statements like this i am not surprised caprivite boss was jumping up and down in last months BGS journal.
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I use both and can't say I notice huge differences between them. Also, running another product down like this on a public forum could be legally challengeable, you'd have to have some pretty sound evidence.
T&T, I'd give your goats a good mineral supplement, whichever you decide on, but maybe get them checked out too, as Anke suggests, there could be other things going on there.
Whereabouts are you, maybe one of us is local to you and can help with a bit of mineral for now?
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I am NOT running another product down..... it is very suitable for areas that are not copper deficient. I was merely saying that research has moved on..... the origical formulation of Caprivite may nolonger meet the needs of some goats. Caprivite has been out a long time and was a godsend at the start.......but other products are out there addressing issues not previously covered.
I apologise if people thought I was rubbishing Caprivite.......interestingly I do have evidence of of the inclusions in most mineral products avalable suitable for goats.
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I agree that we need to be careful with what is said about one product against another on a public forum, I know you have been involved with the research into Brinicombes from the start Wytsend and as such, you feel quite passionate about how it can help goats but it would be awful if people associated your name on their website with comments that could be construed negatively against a competitor after all of your hard work :bouquet:
Everyones needs will differ depending on where they are based, our cobalt issue was dealt with by a mineral supplement that is neither caprivite or brinicombes. I am relatively new to goat keeping but would support Anke's suggestion of finding out what they are short of and then basing the choice of mineral upon the clinical findings.
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I am NOT running another product down..... it is very suitable for areas that are not copper deficient. I was merely saying that research has moved on..... the origical formulation of Caprivite may nolonger meet the needs of some goats. Caprivite has been out a long time and was a godsend at the start.......but other products are out there addressing issues not previously covered.
I apologise if people thought I was rubbishing Caprivite.......interestingly I do have evidence of of the inclusions in most mineral products avalable suitable for goats.
from what i have read and understand caprivite have kept on the ball and the product sold in 2012 is not the same as it was in the early days they offer a fantastic product my parents have used it since day 1 and would not consider changing.
your post over the last few months have been misleading imo some have said goat balancer is the only product on the market capritive has been put down a few times and it comes across as goat balancer is the one fix wonder for all goat requirements, after reading the article in the journal caprivite pointed out some very good points about the sweeping statements being made.
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Everybody has an opinion and one size does not fit all.
Different parts od the country require different fixes.
I am in no way connected to Brinicombe's.
I do not intend to comment further but I wiuld respectfully suggest you compare the breakdowns of all mineral supplements commonly in use for goats and use the one most suited to your area
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I am using Caprivite and my goats are doing well - I milk record and show them. It is good all round and (as far as I know) does not contain animal by-products which I object to in goat feed.
As a trained scientist I can also say that NONE of the goat feed supplements will have been rigourously tested for their preformance improvements compared to others or not using any. There are just not enough goats around to develop viable statistics and all herds are kept individually and different from each other. So there is a lot of subjectivity around as to what individuals perceive as an improvement and it all depends on what you want to get out of your animals.
Feed supplements/drenches/powders seem to be all the rage at the moment, there are loads available for sheep and cattle too...
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I used to use just a mineral lick but have been using Brinicombe's. My goats have been no different since I changed so it's back to the mineral lick as it's much cheaper. I wouldn't begrudge the money if it helped them but it didn't. I have heard others rave about it though so I think it is very individual.
I must live in an area of high copper as I am not using the red one and they are fine, except they don't run on pasture and I assume that is what is affected. I don't know how I can find out about the copper content in the area.
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Re: Mineral deficiences - if your goats are thriving with the normal yellow Rockie (that's what mine have) and given a balanced diet (dairy nuts, mix etc etc) also including different branches, hay from different sources, fruit and veg I wouldn't worry. Mine only get the Caprivite once a week, plus also garlic, linseeds and some seaweed granules.
I think sometimes we can "over"worry about doing all the right things, or not doing enough...
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Tbh i tend to just give rockies but in the buckets they always have bananas then 2-3 other fruit/veg aswell as whole oats ,mix ,alfa A, dairy nuts when they are eating them , a few grains andsugar beet
Then a sprinkle of garlic powder and seaweed and all are fit and healthy
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Sokel, where do you ge the garlic and seaweed powders? would love to add this to my goat feed?
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Sokel, where do you ge the garlic and seaweed powders? would love to add this to my goat feed?
In the horsey section at your feed merchants. NAF do them, quite expensive, but don't need much and so last ages...
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That's reminded me that I used to add garlic to feeds. Not sure why I stopped unless it was when we moved to a different area. Think I'll start again now I know where I can buy it. This thread has been very useful. Thanks everyone.
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I buy the garlic from a local equestrian place because its only £4.50 for a bucket, the seaweed I think we bought from ebay in a 20kg sack but will have to check
Just checked and yes it came from ebay and its a 25kg sack ::)
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Thank you for all your responses and apologies for the delay in getting back to you, I have been away from home for a few days.
I have in fact tried Caprivite but the goats really don't seem to like it. If I give it to them on its own, they barely touch it and if I mix it in with their muesli, it puts them off the muesli, though they will reluctantly eat a little.
I was hoping for a supplement or bolus that was long term rather than a food additive so that I didn't have to worry about daily dosing but it would appear from your comments that this is not possible. My comment on 'great expense' was in reference to large packs of commercially available bolus for cattle rather than the price of a tub of Caprivite or similar so please don't think I didn't want to 'shell out a tenner' for the sake of my babies!!!!
I have bought a variety of mineral licks in the past but the only one they have ever touched is the salt and even this is rare. I already add garlic to their feed and tried seaweed but it was met with utter refusal from both boys.
Just yesterday, I found some 'cattle and goat supplement' in the Adam Henson range.....has anyone had any experience of this? I have also emailed Brinicombe's for further info on their product so thank you for that tip.
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I use Adam hensons and had great results!
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That's useful Plums, I was just saying I hadn't heard of it or anyone using it.
Mine liked Caprivite straight off and took some getting used to the Brinicombes, though now they like it they'll eat it neat!
In fact, I find training them to eat anything new is a slow process' even things like apples and carrots ;unless of course they shouldn't eat it ::)
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I used it when Savannah came back into milk and her milk tasted bitter. Some research (mainly on here!) told me that she most likely had a cobalt deficiency - AH's has 4 times the amount of cobalt as caprivite so gave it a try and within 3 days her milk was 100% perfect.
I think caprivite has the most pleasant smell but with all of the minerals I've had to mix them in the feed to ensure they are eaten.
We also have the rockies - yellow for the sheep, red for the goats (because we have separate fields for both) and they do spend some time licking their rockies - usually after each meal time.
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It took me a long time to get mine used to Caprivite, especially the older goats.... but now it is liked. Seaweed is hidden by garlic, and even then one of my goatlings will not like it (she shoves her food around like a three-year old faced with spinach...).
However the Adam Henson liquid drench for goats only needs to be given a couple of times per year to adults, a bit more often to kids. I am using that too.
Sounds that you need a drench for your boys... there are quite a few sheep ones out there, for example "grow-a-drop" - meant for lambs, but I know it is used by some top notch goat breeders too.
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In fact, I find training them to eat anything new is a slow process' even things like apples and carrots ;unless of course they shouldn't eat it ::)
That's goats for you. ;D