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Author Topic: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!  (Read 15465 times)

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2012, 11:29:20 pm »
I must also apologise for my long replies, lol, once I start typing I find it hard to stop =/ x
Let it all out, sometimes you just need to share say what you think (as long as it doesn't get personal to others of course  :innocent: ) hope it helps you feel better.
 
Rutland elecric fencers have a website where it suggests an elecric fence for badger control. 40 acres wouldn't be too difficult, esp if you can put the fence round the outside of your stock fence?
Just found the section I was thinking of,
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalPredatorNuisance.aspx?SiteID=2
and
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PDFs/TipSheet-Badger.pdf
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 11:34:04 pm by penninehillbilly »

Welshcob

  • Joined Jul 2012
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2012, 05:12:22 pm »
If you vaccinate an animal against TB you won't be able to distinguish the reaction caused by the vaccine or by real infection. Also it is not very effective protection-wise (not as good as some respiratory disease vaccines or other products for sheep) and it could effectively mask carrier animals which you wouldn't cull thinking they were vaccinated, where in fact they are spreading it. Also blood testing doesn't work in this case, as the immune response to the TB bacteria is very different to, say, a viral respiratory infection. There is a collateral test for TB, other than the usual skin test, but it is not considered good enough to replace the skin test. Unfortunately for this disease, it is not the case of choosing the best test between many, but choose the least bad between just two!!  ::)

One of the reasons why they vaccinate badgers is because they are supposed to be "protected" species and in theory (unless authorized centrally, as is the case for the current culls) cannot be killed. Same does not apply to farmed species and I agree is very unfair. However, it is generally agreed that people are more likely to pick up TB from their farm animals/pets than from a badger - at least I would. I'd have more contact with my cows (coughing in my air all the time) than with a badger somewhere in the woods. I think that is why there's less tolerance for TB on farms.

Also animals are not to be treated/vaccinated because there are very few drugs that can kill the bacteria, and there is widespread concern that by treating all species the bugs will get resistant to the few drugs and in that case we'd start seeing people dying of TB again. Surely we don't want that?

 :(

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2012, 06:45:41 pm »
I must also apologise for my long replies, lol, once I start typing I find it hard to stop =/ x
Let it all out, sometimes you just need to share say what you think (as long as it doesn't get personal to others of course  :innocent: ) hope it helps you feel better.
 
Rutland elecric fencers have a website where it suggests an elecric fence for badger control. 40 acres wouldn't be too difficult, esp if you can put the fence round the outside of your stock fence?
Just found the section I was thinking of,
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalPredatorNuisance.aspx?SiteID=2
and
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PDFs/TipSheet-Badger.pdf
Im not sure how long and how many stock one would have to sell in order to pay for 40 acre perimeter badger fence??? not economically practical! and for a 2000 acre hill farm? .......:-(

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2012, 08:09:35 pm »
We rented 30+ acres out and because fences hadn't been replaced at the time the sheep farmer fenced it. 3 strands most of the way round.
If it keeps the animals protected from TB I think it would be well worth the cost of a unit and wire (it's not the netting or 'rope). once bought it should last for years. I was thinking it was 40 acres, not a complete hill farm.
And, of course this wouldn't stop deer etc either.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2012, 08:14:23 pm »
Quote
Why should "Pet" goats be treated any differant! Typical reaction,they run round developing vaccines for badgers but no one bothers about the Farmers cattle.
all I meant was what the owner might want to do and also what the effect might be on an export market, the argument for foot and mouth destruction, which pet goats wouldn't affect.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2012, 08:20:06 pm »
Quote
Why should "Pet" goats be treated any differant! Typical reaction,they run round developing vaccines for badgers but no one bothers about the Farmers cattle.
all I meant was what the owner might want to do and also what the effect might be on an export market, the argument for foot and mouth destruction, which pet goats wouldn't affect.
Actually in DEFRA/AH speak "pet" goats are the same as any goat and as far as I know are treated exactly the same way as any other farm animal... Quite a few herds disappeared in the 2001 F&M epidemic...

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2012, 08:28:08 pm »
I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.

YorkshireLass

  • Joined Mar 2010
  • Just when I thought I'd settled down...!
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2012, 08:31:26 pm »
There has recently been a breakthrough in a "diva" cattle TB test http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/09/10/2012/135640/NFU-Cattle-TB-vaccine-is-still-years-away.htm so a slow step in the right direction.


I never understood why badgers were picked on as vectors - surely any mammal is more-or-less susceptible to carrying TB?


Also, I know of a site where the RSPB put in heavy duty badger fencing - dug in the ground, thickest mesh I've ever seen, electric-topped....little sods dug under it ;)

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2012, 09:07:45 pm »
Badgers are very susceptible to catching TB, but take a long time to die of it so spread it for much longer, they are also very much more efficient shedders of the virus than most other species.
In addition, social patterns within badger groups, where diseased animals are forced out of the main set and end up searching for new territory mean that the disease is spread out of territory very efficiently.
Add to that the strength of their jaws to bit through anything but the strongest barriers and their scavenging habits and you have the perfect storm.
 

deepinthewoods

  • Guest
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2012, 09:39:39 pm »
i remember a while ago hearing something about vaccinated beef not being allowed to be exported to america, so maybe that applies to other cpuntrys?

ballingall

  • Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2008
  • Avonbridge, Falkirk
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2012, 09:57:55 pm »
I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.


Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2012, 10:24:32 pm »
Madness. Same for TB?

So there can exist a way to deal with a (not very severe to the animal, FMD) disease and we can't use it, because it's not possible to distinguish between vaccinated and immune-having-had-the-disease? Both are immune.

I thought the virus-shedding carriers in FMD had been disproved? And anyway TB is a very different disease. What evidence of carriers in vaccinated animals there?

« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 10:31:46 pm by jaykay »

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2012, 07:01:53 am »
I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.


Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
I don't think you would be allowed to vaccinate any kind of goat, as they are classified as farm animals that can (and do) enter the food chain. That's what differentiates them from alpacas for example.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2012, 07:16:12 am »
We've drifted into FMD from TB, but carrying on the drift.....
I found this in a set of FAQ in the USA, where some people are arguing that vaccination is the only sensible way forward.
Quote
Can tests tell vaccinated animals from those who've had the disease?
Yes. Tests now exist for distinquishing vaccinated antibodies in an animal from an infected animal. Pirbright has invented such a test in the last few years, as have several other institutions and/or companies in the US and the EU. The UBI diagnostic kits have been vigorously tested and validated, and they are manufactured in a GMP facility with strict quality assurance and quality control. The kits have been commercially available since 1999, and are currently sold worldwide through a USDA export license (except US domestic market).


I imagine the since the vaccine will be an attenuated strain it would be possible to distinguish those antibodies from 'natural' ones.

It feels like the UK government is terrified that the EU will impose trade bans if we vaccinated against FMD or TB for that matter. Why on earth do they have the power to do that 'unscientifically'  >:('

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: TB, have spoken with animal health vet in ministry!!!
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2012, 09:31:22 am »
I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.


Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
I don't think you would be allowed to vaccinate any kind of goat, as they are classified as farm animals that can (and do) enter the food chain. That's what differentiates them from alpacas for example.
No longer the case 100% - alpacas are now entering the food chain....
http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/9200967.Alpaca_first_for_Eastington_company/
 

 

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