[Rhi]

Hi guys, for all who are interested.
Goat TB and bovine TB are completely different.
Its rare for it to occur in this country and when it does it is very serious, but our cattle being down with it does not restrict goat movements in anyway and they do not test for it.
Goats would only be tested if they got ill and a vet issued that a test should be done. I asked if mine should be done and he said certainly not.
This was said by a vet a who works for the welsh ministry of animal health.
Its put my mind at rest, especially knowing that TB in goats and TB in cattle is different and knowing its also rare also makes me feel better, I have 4 very healthy ladies, well all except the odd bad foot and I'm now going to be looking to purchase them a handsome boyfriend to save on stud fees etc. Thanks for reading x

[lachlanandmarcus]

Thats really odd, Defra seem very specific that it is exactly the same form of TB, indeed there was a well publicised outbreak of it in 2008 (in Wales) .....
http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/publications/advice-guidance/documents/14_Tuberculosis_in_mammals.pdf
http://www.goatvetsoc.co.uk/tbingoats.html
 

[Roxy]

I, too spoke with a Ministry vet when we had the outbreak, and my own vet, and they all advised that seeing as we had a problem with TB, the likely source being the badgers, then I, and other people nearby should not graze our land, and if we had to,  then keep them on a fenced in area, which hopefully the badgers could not get on to.  Even though we had an outbreak they said they would not be testing the goats.
If it is the badgers that cause it, why is it only passed on to the cattle, not goats?  The outbreak first started when some of the commercial pigs escaped from a farm up the lane, the only thing they came into contact with was where the badgers had been - no  cattle.  Next thing, the cows in the next field had it .....and so it came round like wildfire.

[Rhi]

Yes I read the same on the defra website.
He said goats won't pass it to cattle and vice versa. We have a badger problem here, our cows that were infected we're off our land else where, we tested so we could sell them when our positive results came back.
Vet assured me my goats don't need testing.
They graze woodland and have access to over 40 acres grazing, to keep them away from badgers I would literally have to keep them in all year round.
This TB is a nightmare, my mind did feel at ease after talking with ministry, have to say I'm starting to worry again now, I asked how I go about getting a test but he seemed adamant I didn't need to do it!!

[Roxy]

Well, when the outbreak came, the test was free, but a farmer was telling me that before he can sell his cows now, he has to have a test on each one, and pay for it.  So, I assume you can do so with the goats.  But, as I see it, or saw it with the cows, we did not know they had it ....they looked well, calved ok, it was only the test that said otherwise. Perhaps we are worrying about something our goats have not/will not ever catch.  I know I do worry myself when a goat as much as coughs.
I am moving my goats to my new farm, but do wonder about the badgers there as its only over the hill, and badgers travel quite a distance every night.  And the farmhouse next to our land does not help ...Badgers Clough.  I will say no more!!!

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think the ministry have their heads in the sand frankly. If they didnt, they would publish numbers of animals slaughtered after testing positive for m.bovis strain of TB for species other than cattle.
Instead they publish numbers for cattle, but for other species they just lump them in a herd - so if 400 alpacas test positive and are slaughtered in a herd, it counts as.......1 in the figures. Same for all other non-cattle TB cases, including domestic animals (who can also catch it) and deer.
Bizarre.
 
 

[Rhi]

TB is such a complex subject.
Couple of years ago we had a cow 7 months in calf test positive, we couldn't keep her until calving and she was killed, she nor the calf had any visible lesions on post mortem and culture came back clear also meaning she had been exposed but didn't actually have it, stress can also lead to a positive reaction.
Our 2 positives this time came back with visible lesions and we have 2 inconclusives to isolate and re test when we do rest of herd.
General testing usually twice a year I think is free but pre movement tests you do have to pay for which is how we found out about ours. I believe with goats its a blood test rather than testing for a reaction via a lump, am I correct?

[SallyintNorth]

Hi guys, for all who are interested.
Goat TB and bovine TB are completely different.
Its rare for it to occur in this country and when it does it is very serious, but our cattle being down with it does not restrict goat movements in anyway and they do not test for it.
Goats would only be tested if they got ill and a vet issued that a test should be done. I asked if mine should be done and he said certainly not.
This was said by a vet a who works for the welsh ministry of animal health.
Its put my mind at rest, especially knowing that TB in goats and TB in cattle is different and knowing its also rare also makes me feel better, I have 4 very healthy ladies, well all except the odd bad foot and I'm now going to be looking to purchase them a handsome boyfriend to save on stud fees etc. Thanks for reading x

This from the current Animal Health leaflet on TB in other mammals, downloaded from their website today:

Goats
Like most mammals, goats are susceptible to
infection by bovine TB.

[SallyintNorth]

I think the ministry have their heads in the sand frankly. If they didnt, they would publish numbers of animals slaughtered after testing positive for m.bovis strain of TB for species other than cattle.
Instead they publish numbers for cattle, but for other species they just lump them in a herd - so if 400 alpacas test positive and are slaughtered in a herd, it counts as.......1 in the figures. Same for all other non-cattle TB cases, including domestic animals (who can also catch it) and deer.
Bizarre.

They do publish numbers for both individual animals and herds.  Go to this webpage and download the spreadsheet "•Incidents of confirmed M. bovis infection in domestic and companion animals and wild deer in GB from 1997".  The notes are clear - "The figures represent submissions from individual animals, not premises i.e. several submissions may be from the same premises"

The second table is the number of animals tested.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I would say they are actively trying to avoid finding m.bovis in goats. 

[SallyintNorth]

Hi guys, for all who are interested.
Goat TB and bovine TB are completely different.
Its rare for it to occur in this country and when it does it is very serious, but our cattle being down with it does not restrict goat movements in anyway and they do not test for it.
Goats would only be tested if they got ill and a vet issued that a test should be done. I asked if mine should be done and he said certainly not.
This was said by a vet a who works for the welsh ministry of animal health.
Its put my mind at rest, especially knowing that TB in goats and TB in cattle is different and knowing its also rare also makes me feel better, I have 4 very healthy ladies, well all except the odd bad foot and I'm now going to be looking to purchase them a handsome boyfriend to save on stud fees etc. Thanks for reading x

This is all making no sense to me.

Defra's website states, on this page, that

Sheep and goats will be TB tested, at Defra’s expense, if located on premises where TB has been confirmed in cattle (subject to findings of a veterinary risk assessment), or if M. bovis infection has been confirmed in the goat herd itself. Where an owner wishes to tuberculin test their sheep and/or goats in the absence of confirmed M. bovis infection on the premises or in the immediate vicinity, testing may be undertaken privately by the owner’s veterinary surgeon at the owner’s expense. Such testing must, however, be agreed and approved by AHVLA.

That reads to me that your goats should now be tested, Rhi, at the Ministry's expense unless your vet blocks it.

And it seems intriguing that, in the absence of TB in your cattle, you need AHVLA's permission to test your own animals at your own expense.  I am definitely starting to feel some paranoia here....

[jinglejoys]

I too have been told for years that Goat TB is not the same as cattle TB (Which is probably why it isn't passed on by badgers)and that goats aren't susceptable to it anyway.What DEATHRA knows about goats can be written on the other side of the postage stamp the vets write their knowledge on Hence their stupid tagging and disbudding rules

[ballingall]

What DEATHRA knows about goats can be written on the other side of the postage stamp the vets write their knowledge on Hence their stupid tagging and disbudding rules

I think that is debatable. DEFRA is an organisation, not a person. What the organisation knows is what the many people who support (or work for it) know, and what they get advised by certain "experts". And moreover, not all the disbudding rules are stupid. I do agree that goats should be anaesthetised to be disbudded. And, in any case, it is the advice of the Goat Veterinary Society who have indicated their view on disbudding, it just so happens that obviously DEFRA will want those views to complied with.


Beth

[wytsend]

So, from what you have been told Rhi,  Goat Tb is different to Bovine TB.   It is not true !!!!!
TB is TB.......so deer who contract TB  are Ok because it is deer TB and not bovine !!    What about Camelids who also get TB  which is bovine TB ??
I'm afraid somebody is feeding you information which is, shall we say, flawed.           Goats do get Bovine TB and you should have been offered a free test to ensure your girls are free of it.
I think the people  you have spoken to are confusing this with Avian TB which goats are also susceptible to.
You can contact Nick Clayton at Goat Veterinary Society for further clarification.

[plumseverywhere]

My understanding is that TB is a zoonosis and therefore transmittable between species. Its unfortunate in a way that it is referred to as 'bovine TB' as this is where people start to believe it is restricted to a certain type of animal. In fact cats, dogs, deer, cattle, badgers, goats.......can all catch it.

Here is a link to one of Nick Claytons articles on the disease

http://www.goatvetsoc.co.uk/alpacas.html

[Rhi]

Thanks, I think I'll get in touch with this gentleman.
I don't mind paying for the tests for them.
It all started as I was curious as the whether the TB restrictions for our cattle included my goats, hence why I rang the ministry.
My vet told me straight off I didn't need to worry about them getting TB, then the lady who did our farm inspection said the same along with DEFRA, so I've been misinformed by 3 people within the industry who deal with TB. My best bet is to just test them.
Do all of you test your goats for TB? As you rightly say all animals can transmit it meaning they will be exposed to it, and is there a vaccination do you know to protect them? I feel my goats are like our sheep and cattle, they are pets and I would be extremely upset if any of them did react.
Also does this mean sheep can get TB too? I have to say I know the restrictions and I know plenty about bovine TB what with our cattle etc but nothing about what other animals etc it affects. Thanks