[lill]

CW it is not aimed specifically at you, it is just there is so much written on this forum, that can be misread and if people that are new to pigs could be breaking the law by there misinterpretation of the rules and regulations. It is meant to be a font of knowledge and assistance, not how can we bend the rules to suit a few individuals that cannot see further than the nose on their face. I have been following the various threads about this on this forum and i am sitting fuming at how irresponsible a few are on this subject.

[Blackmyre]

The rules and regulations pertaining to keeping pigs are clear and distinct and should be understood by all pig keepers before the pigs arrive on their premises. I for one would not be very happy if my animals were wiped out because somebody had not taken the time to get up to speed on the rules and regulations

As Colliewoman points out, the regulations aren't all that clear - there's scope for confusion, at the very least. Some rules are perhaps a bit OTT when it comes to smallholder-scale anyway, but I think we have to accept "one size fits all" regulations sometimes.

[colliewoman]

CW it is not aimed specifically at you, it is just there is so much written on this forum, that can be misread and if people that are new to pigs could be breaking the law by there misinterpretation of the rules and regulations. It is meant to be a font of knowledge and assistance, not how can we bend the rules to suit a few individuals that cannot see further than the nose on their face. I have been following the various threads about this on this forum and i am sitting fuming at how irresponsible a few are on this subject.

Just checking, thank you

[Blackmyre]

I guess I can't get into trouble for asking the question?

Nope - but you could get yourself on "their" radar. A visit or two could be a useful source of advice and information... or the start of a real pain in the parts!

The bread is still sitting in the shed waiting for a definite answer

Highly commendable, especially as the real health risk (as opposed to strict legality) is probably negligible. But "definitive answer"? I'm not sure such a beast exists - many of these rules are at the whim of interpretation by individual officials until tested in court.

[kja]

I guess I can't get into trouble for asking the question?

Nope - but you could get yourself on "their" radar. A visit or two could be a useful source of advice and information... or the start of a real pain in the parts!





my thoughts too blackmyre 

when we sell weaners to new pig keepers we always go through the do's and don'ts of feeding pigs some seem surprised they cant feed pigs anything our advice to them is you can't afford to feed them you should not be buying them, pig feed is expensive and will get more so over the next few months but the fine for breaking the rules is more so.

and if you are lucky enough to find a source of waste food suitable for livestock you may well find you need a waste carriers licence to collect it.

[lachlanandmarcus]

Agreed re: the points being made being made more for the benefit of people thinking of getting pigs and thinking they can feed them any old scraps they couldnt finish at dinnertime, rather than so much the bread scenario. Its def not trying to criticise you OP - as the bread may be ok, it's certainly borderline and the regs are vague.
I would ask the powers that be if its ok to feed- but thats because I always prefer to know where I stand and not have a nagging worry - and also if theres a disease outbreak I want to know Im squeaky clean.
I do also want to avoid a situation where smallholders are seen to be 'flouting' the rules and presenting a higher disease risk than big factory type operations and given the extra per head costs of inspecting all the thousands of smallholdings, the government trying even harder to discourage smallholding more than they do already, using the talisman of disease protection. (which ignores the fact that  most outbreaks have come from large scale factory farms or government facilities but hey since when have facts mattered...)
 

[Berkshire Boy]

lachlanandmarcus, what do you mean by government discouraging smallholding. On the rare occasions I have had dealings with them they have been very helpful and far from discouraging. Why does everyone always blame the government for everything.

[kja]

lachlanandmarcus, what do you mean by government discouraging smallholding. On the rare occasions I have had dealings with them they have been very helpful and far from discouraging. Why does everyone always blame the government for everything.

have the same view as you BB never felt discouraged in fact our local AHO has been in touch asking for advice on matters i feel they work with you if you are willing to work with them, i also feel they have a up hill struggle at times with people that just want to flount the regs for whatever reason, lots of examples on most forums the favoirites are feed and ear tags (or the lack of tags) if everyone stuck to the rules life would be so much easier.

[lill]

I am of the same opinionion as BB and KJA . If there is discouragement it is from the commercial side of the industry as they have the biggest clout. And are just waiting for us to put a foot wrong .

[lachlanandmarcus]

lachlanandmarcus, what do you mean by government discouraging smallholding. On the rare occasions I have had dealings with them they have been very helpful and far from discouraging. Why does everyone always blame the government for everything.

I dont always blame the government for everything !! Nor do I have any issues with the local inspectors etc. I dont think I have said that I do?
I DO yes however have an issue with successive government AND EU  policies which fail to promote animal welfare, free range and local food production, For example the willingness to allow most of the smaller abbatoirs to close, the farce over food labelling as UK when it is anything but, the double standards that have allowed foreign pork producers to flout welfare rules when we are gold plating, the farce of sheep EID tagging overkill when sheep havent been the source of any of the major human risk disease outbreaks etc etc etc, the lack of a policy to try to increase the amount of food production and the throwing of dairy farmers to the lions re TB eradication.
So I have no issues with the people who implement the rules, but yes, I do have an issue with governments which I think would be quite happy to see 100% of our food produced abroad as long as it was cheap and who would happily regulate smallholders out of existence unthinkingly. They dont have to do it directly to do it. If they allow all the abbatoirs to close within reach, the cost of transport becomes untenable. If they make the rules on feed so stringent as to mean only purchased feed is viable, no waste feed (unless you get an exemption as a megabusiness) then the costs of feed become unworkable. If you make tagging an extra expense, increase inspection fees at abbatoirs etc then the costs of raising rare breeds dont make sense, esp when there are extra fees for older animals eg sheep over 12 months having extra material removed, rare breeds are kept for over 12 months, commercial ones arent. 
All this may be as a result of being in the pockets of big business but if so it is several governments of all different hues who are the same. They just want cheap poor quality food to keep the masses quiet, and it works :-(

[Berkshire Boy]

You are never going to change the fact that food has to be produced on a massive scale and as cheaply as possible. There are people who can't afford the luxury of eating pampered rare breed pigs, cows or whatever. You cannot feed the masses with out type of product that is a fact. We on here are in a privileged position to be able to rear what we eat unfortunately others aren't but that will never change.

[lill]

LM quite a bit of complaints in your post. Governments come and go, but the advisers stay and control.The EU control every aspect of our lives it is there policy's of improvement,  that has seen the closures of the abattoirs. It still costs money to run them ,and that is the main reason why they are closing .At one time every large town had a slaughterhouse .And before that every butcher slaughtered out the back of there shop. You just cant force people to run a business at a loss, because it would be an inconvenience to a few.

[colliewoman]

And the official answer.........
 
 
 
 
 
drum roll please........
 
 
 
 
They don't know! Lovely lady said she could dig in and find out for me, but she really didn't know and had never been asked before 
 
I said not to worry and I would just assume for now that I can't. i'll go get em a couple of sack of carrots instead
 
Thankies to all who have replied though, It has been very interesting