[Bionic]

CW, I'm with you on this one.
Sally

[lachlanandmarcus]

It may be fine to feed it - the packaged nature of it and 'suitable for veggies' may be enough, as I put in my post.....
Personally, if I was going to be doing it regularly, I would (for my own peace of mind )  be checking with defra type peeps as they must have been  asked this question before and I would want to cover myself, but thats cos Im Henny Penny and the sky might fall in :-DDD.

[colliewoman]

And I now have a new OCD trigger

[sokel]

I understood that you could buy bread from a shop and feed it to your pigs as long as it did not pass through your kitchen 

[Mrs Snoodles]

I'm not sure that those regs are applicable.  I remember Tony Yorke describing how he had a deal with his local wait rose to pick up all their old stuff. He would bring along his trailer, load up. The deal was, take all or nothing, so it did involve some sorting at his end.
I approached my local coop about it years ago but they had yet to get an official line on what they wanted to do with all their waste, that they had to pay for to be disposed.  I'm going to try again soon. 

Our nearby Lavenham coop branch has disgracefully started to LOCK their bins to stop people raiding them.  If people are that desperate then it is ridiculous that so much should go to waste.  nearby Morrisons sells loaves for 9p. We used to take loads of them until I was told that these discounted products are really needed by some people In the town.  Tough times for lots of people.

[Factotum]

This is from the current legislation:



THE FOLLOWING APPLIES TO ONLY CERTAIN FORMER FOODSTUFFS from premises such as bakers, supermarkets, retail stores, crisp manufacturers and confectioners (although not from kitchens and restaurants based on these premises). Food items which can be recycled for use in farm animal feed include:

baked goods (bread, cakes, pastry and biscuits), vegetables, pasta, chocolate, sweets, and other products, such as breakfast cereals, which may contain rennet or melted fat, milk, milk products, flavourings, egg, honey, and gelatine of non-ruminant origin (not from pigs or poultry) - provided these items don't constitute the main ingredient. They must not contain - and must not have been in contact with - raw eggs, meat, fish and products or preparations derived from, or incorporating, meat or fish.
milk, milk products provided they are not included in final products for general sale as farm animal feed i.e. can only be distributed to keepers registered on the milk register administered by the Scottish Government.
eggs and egg products can only be sent for farm animal feeding from food factories (or from rendering plants) and not from retail premises or supermarkets.

Baked goods can be turned into feed providing the criteria above are met. This involves the retailer complying with HACCP and have specific procedures to ensure the separation of meat products from the baked good etc.

Unless your local supermarket operates such a system, then it is probably illegal to feed baked goods purchased there to your livestock.

Sue

[colliewoman]

I'd still argue that bought bread is not a 'former' food stuff. The supermarkets DO have strict procedures in place to prevent cross contamination, and so do the initial bakers who labeled it 'suitable for vegetarians'.
Every single piece of legislation I can find relates to 'former foodstuff' or 'waste product'.
An in date, purchased wholemeal loaf is most definitely either.


I am going to ring tomorrow, they kept cutting me off today

[Blackmyre]

I'd still argue that bought bread is not a 'former' food stuff

As far as DEFRA is concerned, "former foodstuff" is food originally intended for human consumption. It's typically out of date food, broken biscuits etc. (as opposed to "catering waste"), but best of luck arguing that it doesn't count because it was in date - not something I would fancy testing in court.


Such food isn't absolutely banned from feeding to livestock but you really have to be able to demonstrate that there's absolutely no chance whatsoever of there having been any risk of contamination:


However, there are some circumstances where, providing premises e.g. bakers, supermarkets, crisps manufacturers, confectioners (but not from kitchens and restaurants) are able to demonstrate that they have Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP) procedures in place to ensure that there is no possibility of the material intended to be fed to livestock being contaminated by meat or most other products of animal origin, it may be acceptable for the material to originate on the same premises

[/size]So, if your supermarket is able and willing to provide you with documentation showing that it [/size]has all the procedures in place, the authorities may accept that it's OK for you to feed it to your pigs.


Provided that it never goes anywhere near your kitchen first though, of course. Unpack it there along with the rest of your shopping and you're immediately illegal anyway.

'suitable for vegetarians'

I don't know about former foodstuffs but, for catering waste, "it's from a strictly vegetarian kitchen" carries no weight at whatsoever - it's still illegal.


Maximum sentence is two years inside.


Another consideration is nutritional value. It may be cheap belly-fill but it was pointed out in a posting a while back that such foods aren't going to be optimally nutritious.

[colliewoman]

For a couple of pet pigs I was thinking more of a cheap treat


At least I don't have to worry about stuff coming through my kitchen! I don't have one in my truck


If I can actually get through to someone on the phone tommorrow I am going to ask and shall report back post haste

[lill]

[quote author=Blackmyre link=topic=28202
 
 

Maximum sentence is two years inside.

This is needing to be enforced, then we will maybe stop all this wind and urine about feeding unsuitable food to pigs. The rules and regulations pertaining to keeping pigs are clear and distinct and should be understood by all pig keepers before the pigs arrive on their premises. I for one would not be very happy if my animals were wiped out because somebody had not taken the time to get up to speed on the rules and regulations, a very good friend of ours had their herd wiped out in the last outbreak of F&M, years of breeding and selection gone in less than an hour. Get real and have an understanding for other livestock keepers.

[colliewoman]

I hope the    isn't aimed at me?
I have not risked other livestock keepers by purchasing perfectly good bread. And I'm sorry but no the regulations aren't clear to everyone as this post has shown. I am not the only person who has read the reg to mean differently to someone else. I am however trying my best to find out.




I though I was clear on the regulations, I certainly wouldn't have bought the stuff if I thought I was breaking the law.
But as I said, I am ringing tomorrow so will hopefully have a definite answer one way or the other

[Blackmyre]

For a couple of pet pigs I was thinking more of a cheap treat  

Understood. The posting about nutritional value was an interesting one - it made the point that getting pigs to market weight using sub-optimal feed will take longer, so that has to be factored in to the equation when considering how cheap it is. It's a different matter for pets, of course.


The regulations don't differentiate between "pets" and otherwise, by the way. I think you probably know that, but I thought I'd mention it for the benefit of anyone dropping in on this thread.

If I can actually get through to someone I am going to ask and shall report back post haste

I hope you won't be stirring up a hornet's nest, but good luck and please do report back.

[colliewoman]

Nah, I get that in the eyes of the law there are no such things as pet pigs and I have all my different animal feeds kept completely separately etc etc
I'm just trying to get my head round the legalities
Someone will tell me soon I can't gather up the windfall apples for them, then the girls will get cross

[colliewoman]

I hope you won't be stirring up a hornet's nest, but good luck and please do report back.

I guess I can't get into trouble for asking the question?


The bread is still sitting in the shed waiting for a definite answer I haven't fed it yet cos of the replies here [size=78%]. I feel a trip to the local duck pond coming up cos by the time this is settled I will have a good crop of penicillin[/size]

[colliewoman]

I hope you won't be stirring up a hornet's nest, but good luck and please do report back.

I guess I can't get into trouble for asking the question?


The bread is still sitting in the shed waiting for a definite answer I haven't fed it yet cos of the replies here   . I feel a trip to the local duck pond coming up cos by the time this is settled I will have a good crop of penicillin