[sabrina]

When anyone new came to my training class it was so easy to know they were feeding Bakers. I had quite a job convincing owners that it was the food they were using that was there main problem. Should be banned.

[Moleskins]

I was on the point of politely passing this info onto the owner of this loony Alsation when my OH told me that it's fed on raw meat, whole chicken, bones and all.

[SallyintNorth]

Raw meat's a good diet for many dogs, but people don't always realise how much more nutritious than tinned or dried food it is, so the chances are she's feeding way too much raw meat - especially if she's not able to give it off-lead exercise.

[doganjo]

Yup, too much protein = flying around like crazy.  My dogs are a working breed, and I keep them at around 18 to 20% protein, and keep fats down, unless they have a work day ahead of them.

[Fowgill Farm]

Sorry to hijack thread but if i shouldn't be feeding bakers what do i choose instead?
mandy

[doganjo]

Whatever you change to do it gradually so as not to upset the stomach - over a week should be OK.  Look for e numbers and additives on the bag and avoid if there are a lot of them.  The choice of dog food is very subjective as there are so many.  I find my dogs do very well on Skinners Field and Trial Maintenance, and it is reasonably priced at around £17 a bag, and they also get treats occasionally.  Other brands I have used are Dr Johns (silver is better than Gold I was told)  Some people su cheaper brands and their dogs are fine on them - trial and error till you find one to suit your dog and suit your pocket is probably the best guidance.  Expensive foods are Royal Canin, Arden grange, Challenge, etc

[Fowgill Farm]

Thanks for the tips, read about Skinners in one of OH's shooting mags so may try that.
Appreciate all your help
Mandy

[Old Shep]

As well as the protein percentage look out for the protein source - animal protein is much better than cereal derived protein.  Which is why a raw diet doesn't wind them up as much as people think it should.


Fowgill - well done on thinking away from Bakers.  Not wanting to worry you, but saw this on face book:


Do you know what's in your dogs food......[/size]E320 - has been found to be tumour producing when fed to rats. In human studies it has been linked with uticaria, angioedema and asthma.E321 - BANNED for use in food in Japan, Romania, Sweden and Australia. The US has Banned it from being used in infant foods. E310 - BANNED from children's foods in the US because it is thought to cause the blood disorder methemoglobinemia.
E172 - BANNED in Germany.
E132 - Can cause skin sensitivity, a rash similar to nettle rash, itching, nausea, high blood pressure and breathing problems. One of the colours that the Hyperactive Children's Support Group recommends be eliminated from the diet of children. PROHIBITED in Norway.
E102 - TARTRAZINE - A trail on 76 children diagnosed as hyperactive, showed that tartrazine provoked abnormal behaviour patterns in 79% of them.
E110 - Sunset Yellow has been found to damage kidneys and adrenals when fed to laboratory rats. It has also been found to be carcinogenic when fed to animals.
E104 - One of the colours that the Hyperactive Children's Support Group recommends be eliminated from the diet of children. BANNED in Australia, Japan, Norway and the US.
E171 - BANNED in Germany.
E153 - BANNED as a food additive in the USA and suspected as a carcinogenic agent.

And which food contains all these? BAKERS COMPLETE.
Please share, this IS NOT widely known knowledge and people need to become aware.[/color]

[jaykay]

I use Dr John's Silver for Skye, which he's good on, and Beta Light for Skerry who has a tendency to get fat. Arran has to have James Wellbeloved as she's allergic to everything.

Yep, that German Shepherd is getting too much protein I'd say. Suggest Dr John's Silver to her?

[princesspiggy]

 at one point it lunged backwards straining on the lead which is attached to a head collar (?) I couldn't help but think if anything slipped we were in trouble.

our gsd isnt aggressive but was always bonkers on a lead even tho she went to training every week for the first yr of her life. she used to have a headcollar too, and we always made sure we had a clip from the lead to the collar incase the headcollar came off.
we bought the farm 7 yrs ago when she was 18 mths old and she hasnt on a lead since. shes perfect now (but also middle-aged - that helps...lol)

[Moleskins]

Backward straining could probably be controlled and through training the dog could walk sensibly, which this one does if you see it at a distance.
It's the ferocity it shows when anything strange is near, you, vehicles, plastic bag.
I think it's very commendable the work she's done with it and I feel for her because you have to be a dedicated dog owner to go this far, but I do think it's never going to be safe in public.
You'd make an enemy for life if you ever said anything though wouldn't you.

[jaykay]

But you could perhaps say, "you know how strong and lively <dog's name> is? There was something on my smallholders' forum about dogs being calmer, so easier to live with if they ate a lower protein diet -  I don't know if you're interested in any more info?'

Only you know if she'd respond or be mortally offended 

[doganjo]

That sounds very diplomatic, can you do it Moleskins?

[Old Shep]

I would keep your nose out of criticising the dogs diet!  There is no proof that because the dog is fed raw that this would upset its behaviour.  Its the source of protein that affects behaviour not just percentage.  Dogs fed on quality raw meat are fine.  I have 4 of them, one is a foster who came before he was to be pts.  He had nipped neighbours and was dog agressive.  He was fed on Bakers.  Now on a raw diet he is a pussy cat.

If someone came up to me and told me that all my dogs problems are because of the raw diet (which I have full researched and trialled and found to be better than any kibble), just because of what someone posted on a forum - I think I would want to deck them!

If you want to help this woman just talk to her and say you admire her for the hard work she is putting in to that dog.  Then ask what you could do to help her when you meet with your dogs?  Then spread that message to the neighbours.

[jaykay]

If someone came up to me and told me that all my dogs problems are because of the raw diet

Where was that being advocated?

I was suggesting she might be pointed to a source of discussion about it if she was interested/thought it might be helpful. She might be glad of it, she might not. If it's not offered, she doesn't have the choice. Your dogs are good on a raw diet but it doesn't mean that all are. I know there are very respected dog people (Barbara Sykes for example) who know through much experience that difficult to handle Border Collies are easier to deal with if not eating too high a protein diet.

If you want to help this woman just talk to her and say you admire her for the hard work she is putting in to that dog.  Then ask what you could do to help her when you meet with your dogs?  Then spread that message to the neighbours.

That too would be helpful.